Lily the Panther: a "Rescue" Progress Thread!

[GoodKarma19]

Hi cham family! It's been just about two weeks since I brought miss Lily home, and now that she's settling in a bit I thought I'd post a questionnaire for review and start up a fresh thread for Lily related updates and pictures! Her original thread covering her trip home and first week is here, if you're interested/aren't up to date with my Lily adventure!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Female ambilobe panther chameleon, approximately 1 year old. (Easter) Lily has been in my care since April 22, 2019.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Lily is currently receiving medications once to twice a day (eye issues, mouth lesions - see History), so she's handled for generally a minimum of 5 minutes daily. She's been letting me apply her drops and cream without removing her from her enclosure the last couple times, and has willingly stepped on my hand a few times to go outside for sun. (10-30 min or so)

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Lily is fed 3 large meals a week early in the day at around 8-9am (Mon, Wed, Fri), equivalent in volume to ~5-6 crickets. She also gets a hand fed treat or two in the afternoon and on "off" days for positive reinforcement. She's currently being offered large crickets, superworms, and hornworms. I also have bsfl pupating (she hasn't been interested in the larvae themselves yet), and I'm currently looking into silkworm suppliers and possibly dubia or discoid roaches - they can be difficult to get in Canada (and dubiously legal, in the case of the roaches)! If she'll take them, I'll also be offering her one small pinky mouse (f/t) per month, along with seasonally available wild caught insects (from pesticide free areas).

Feeders are gut loaded with a weekly rotating menu of veggies and fruits, as well as a staple of Repashy Bug Burger, Superload, and bee pollen. I make up and freeze batches of "chop" (diced fruit and veg) for my birds, so the bugs get all sorts of things! Currently on the menu is mango, papaya, apple, banana, shredded carrot, green beans, and mixed leafy greens. All of my feeders are gut loaded for a minimum of 12-24 hours or longer before being fed off.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

I'm currently using plain calcium (Zoomed), calcium with D3 (Zoomed), and Repashy Supervite (multivitamin). As per my vet's recommendation, I'm dusting with Supervite every other feeding (works out to about 2x per week) for the next 3 weeks while Lily gets back on her feet (see history), but I'll be cutting back to a more standard schedule afterward.

After discussing with my vet, my current plan is to get my hands on some Repashy Calcium Plus LoD for use with her Mon/Wed feedings and treats, and dust with Supervite on Fridays (weekly).

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I'm currently hand misting, as I keep putting off assembling my MistKing (bad Amanda... I'm doing it this weekend, I swear!!). Right now, Lily is being misted 2-3 times a day for at least 2 minutes each time. I give her a longer session (4-5 minutes) mid afternoon/early evening to ensure she cleans her eyes. I occasionally see her drink, usually after her misting session in the evening. I plan on programming my MistKing to emulate this schedule, though I might give myself a window for handmisting just because it gives me an excuse to observe her and check my plants. And I enjoy it. hoto

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

All of Lily's bowel movements so far have been normal and healthy in appearance: medium brown and well formed, with solid white urates. Lily tested positive for pinworms (mild case) on April 28th, and has had her first dose of Panacur (fenbendazole). She's due for a recheck fecal in ~9 days, +/- a follow up dose of Panacur.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Lily's full history can be found here, but essentially she was an ailing pet store chameleon that had been slowly deteriorating. They had her for about 8 or so months, and their husbandry was lacking. Lily has issues with her eyes (squinting/closed during the day, slightly misshapen) and has a couple mouth lesions, the latter of which I believe were caused by her rubbing her eyes and mouth on branches/other surfaces. I've recieved medications for both problems - EyeStream ophthalmic irritating solution and 3-Biotic +H for her eyes, and betadine + Flamazine (silver sulfadiazine) for her lesions. All meds are applied 1-2 times daily.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Currently a 16x16x30 ReptiBreeze. Upgrading to a 36x18x36 ExoTerra bioactive enclosure as soon as possible (within the next 2-3 months, hopefully!!).

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Lights are 7am-7pm. Currently running a ReptiSun LED UVB hood with a 5.0 ReptiSun linear bulb, and a mini deep dome with a 50w incandescent bulb for basking. For the upgraded enclosure, I'll be running a T5HO quad with 1 6% Arcadia, 2 6500k daylights, and a plant pro bulb.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Cage floor is 69-70F, basking is 82-85 at the screen itself. Lowest overnight temp I've recorded is 68. Temps are measured with a digital thermometer and a temp gun (IR thermometer)

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Humidity holds steady between 50-70, 80+ immediately after misting. Humidity is currently created solely through misting, and the enclosure is wrapped in 3 sides a shower curtain. I measure with a digital hydrometer. Eventually I'd like to run a fogger/cool mist humidifier overnight from 12-4am.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

There are currently 2 varieties of pothos (golden, pearls and jade), a schefflera, and an unidentified bromeliad in the enclosure. I have many more plants, but no more room in the cage, haha!

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

The enclosure is on top of my dresser in the sleeping nook of my basement suite, and the top of the cage is a bit over 6 feet from the ground. It's a low traffic area to begin with (just me), and is blocked off from the rest of the room by a room divider. There's a vent on the floor ~ 3 feet from the cage.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

I live in Kelowna, BC.

Current Problem - I feel that I have things fairly well in hand, but I'm always open to improvement!!

Note: due to the size of her current enclosure, Lily has an external lay bin with play sand and organic top soil. She's weighed weekly to keep an eye on development, and currently weighs 48g (unlikely to be gravid).

 

[janjan20]

Thanks for the update! She’s a little beauty!

 

[Clayton0520]

Love the setup! Her enclosure is awesome!!! She’s a cutie as well.

 

[JoXie411]

Yay lilly. Great job Mary Poppins Amanda you made a cham life happy

 

[GoodKarma19]

Thanks for the update! She’s a little beauty!

Yay lilly. Great job Mary Poppins Amanda you made a cham life happy

Thank you!! Lily's such a little trooper... I love her to bits! It may not have been the wisest decision to bring her home, but I definitely don't regret it. It was meant to be! I don't know what it is, exactly, but I'm really drawn to the lady chams. They have a sort of understated beauty!

Love the setup! Her enclosure is awesome!!! She’s a cutie as well.

Thanks - I had a lot of fun with it, and learned a lot! Functional art is my favorite kind, and I'm really enjoying setting up aesthetically appealing, yet functional enclosures so far. So excited for my bioactive build!! I'm off foraging for bark, leaf litter, and interesting CuC right now.

 

[Thehippie]

shes looking great!! she found a spectacular home with you, you've gone up and beyond with her care!!!

 

[Beman]

Love you... Love her... watching this thread.. Taking a mental health break after the last few days of crazy and abuse. If you need me you know how to reach me xoxo

 

[bluepanther91]

Before you know it, she will be laying eggs on her own so she will digging in that pot. I found the eggs at the bottom usually, the soil den can collapse when she lays her eggs. If the chameleon digs in the pot, the soil gets flung out of the pot. She may come out with broken claws or a swollen eye from rubbing against the plastic. Just a thought but things add up and can be sometimes hard to take the eggs out when there is so much in the cage to have to deal with. She looks like an Ambilobe panther to me, and they might lay 2 to 3 times a year depending on the nutrition. Cool stuff!

 

[Rst_Cham]

Oh, what a lucky chameleon she is to have you! Love her enclosure, well done!

 

[GoodKarma19]

shes looking great!! she found a spectacular home with you, you've gone up and beyond with her care!!!

Oh, what a lucky chameleon she is to have you! Love her enclosure, well done!

Thank you! I'm giving her the best I've got... it's unfortunate she came to me before I had my bioactive up and running! Oh well... soon(tm)! It just gives me a chance to make sure she's in top shape before I shuffle her off to her permanent enclosure.

Love you... Love her... watching this thread.. Taking a mental health break after the last few days of crazy and abuse. If you need me you know how to reach me xoxo

You take as long as you need, Becca! Gotta take of yourself first. We'll hold down the fort while you rest! Come poke me if you feel like nerding out - if nothing else I find that I'm a good distraction!!

Before you know it, she will be laying eggs on her own so she will digging in that pot. I found the eggs at the bottom usually, the soil den can collapse when she lays her eggs. If the chameleon digs in the pot, the soil gets flung out of the pot. She may come out with broken claws or a swollen eye from rubbing against the plastic. Just a thought but things add up and can be sometimes hard to take the eggs out when there is so much in the cage to have to deal with. She looks like an Ambilobe panther to me, and they might lay 2 to 3 times a year depending on the nutrition. Cool stuff!

I appreciate the feedback! The second Lily starts showing signs of egg laying behavior, she'll be going into an external lay bin (trash can). Her current set up is temporary, and with a bit of luck she won't produce eggs until her next enclosure. I'm ready and watching like a hawk just in case, though, and she's being weighed weekly to keep track of trends. At 48 grams, it's unlikely that she's gravid at current (my vet doesn't think so, at least). Since I'm going bioactive for the next build, she'll have access to at least 8" (I intend to slope to ~10-12" at the back) of substrate at all times, and I'll make sure that it can hold a tunnel beforehand and add sand to my mix as needed. Great thing about bioactive, too, is that I wont need to remove the eggs! My clean up crew will deal with it as they mold.

Oh, and here's my bio build thread, if y'all haven't seen it! I'm having a lot of fun, and it's almost time to get started in earnest! Just waiting on my enclosure and lighting, now...

 

[GoodKarma19]

Lily went on a bit of a hunger strike this week, and has been laying on her basking branch with her eyes closed a lot. Definitely no bueno! I was going to bring her to the vet tomorrow, but she's much perkier today and back to eating and doing normal chameleon things after I brought her outside for some sun and "convinced" her to eat a tiny pinky mouse (read: I popped one in her mouth). They're chock full of vitamins, so hopefully it'll do her some good! (Disclaimer: pinky mice will only be a once a month sort of deal.) She happily hunted down a couple crickets on her own afterward, and is back at basking - with her eyes open this time!

 

[Beman]

Lily went on a bit of a hunger strike this week, and has been laying on her basking branch with her eyes closed a lot. Definitely no bueno! I was going to bring her to the vet tomorrow, but she's much perkier today and back to eating and doing normal chameleon things after I brought her outside for some sun and "convinced" her to eat a tiny pinky mouse (read: I popped one in her mouth). They're chock full of vitamins, so hopefully it'll do her some good! (Disclaimer: pinky mice will only be a once a month sort of deal.) She happily hunted down a couple crickets on her own afterward, and is back at basking - with her eyes open this time!

Good mommy so proud of you. I cant do the mice thing. I know great source of natural Vitamin A but we have a pet Rat... I would feel like I was killing her lol.

 

[krikinit]

Good mommy so proud of you. I cant do the mice thing. I know great source of natural Vitamin A but we have a pet Rat... I would feel like I was killing her lol.

I had a pet rat who recently passed. He helped me trap my first Red Tailed hawk. He was never in any danger and never hurt. His reward was becoming a Connaisseur of fine cheeses and home grown veggies! He passed and I got Thomas. Ratman was 6 years old!

 

[krikinit]

Hi cham family! It's been just about two weeks since I brought miss Lily home, and now that she's settling in a bit I thought I'd post a questionnaire for review and start up a fresh thread for Lily related updates and pictures! Her original thread covering her trip home and first week is here, if you're interested/aren't up to date with my Lily adventure!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Female ambilobe panther chameleon, approximately 1 year old. (Easter) Lily has been in my care since April 22, 2019.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Lily is currently receiving medications once to twice a day (eye issues, mouth lesions - see History), so she's handled for generally a minimum of 5 minutes daily. She's been letting me apply her drops and cream without removing her from her enclosure the last couple times, and has willingly stepped on my hand a few times to go outside for sun. (10-30 min or so)

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Lily is fed 3 large meals a week early in the day at around 8-9am (Mon, Wed, Fri), equivalent in volume to ~5-6 crickets. She also gets a hand fed treat or two in the afternoon and on "off" days for positive reinforcement. She's currently being offered large crickets, superworms, and hornworms. I also have bsfl pupating (she hasn't been interested in the larvae themselves yet), and I'm currently looking into silkworm suppliers and possibly dubia or discoid roaches - they can be difficult to get in Canada (and dubiously legal, in the case of the roaches)! If she'll take them, I'll also be offering her one small pinky mouse (f/t) per month, along with seasonally available wild caught insects (from pesticide free areas).

Feeders are gut loaded with a weekly rotating menu of veggies and fruits, as well as a staple of Repashy Bug Burger, Superload, and bee pollen. I make up and freeze batches of "chop" (diced fruit and veg) for my birds, so the bugs get all sorts of things! Currently on the menu is mango, papaya, apple, banana, shredded carrot, green beans, and mixed leafy greens. All of my feeders are gut loaded for a minimum of 12-24 hours or longer before being fed off.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

I'm currently using plain calcium (Zoomed), calcium with D3 (Zoomed), and Repashy Supervite (multivitamin). As per my vet's recommendation, I'm dusting with Supervite every other feeding (works out to about 2x per week) for the next 3 weeks while Lily gets back on her feet (see history), but I'll be cutting back to a more standard schedule afterward.

After discussing with my vet, my current plan is to get my hands on some Repashy Calcium Plus LoD for use with her Mon/Wed feedings and treats, and dust with Supervite on Fridays (weekly).

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I'm currently hand misting, as I keep putting off assembling my MistKing (bad Amanda... I'm doing it this weekend, I swear!!). Right now, Lily is being misted 2-3 times a day for at least 2 minutes each time. I give her a longer session (4-5 minutes) mid afternoon/early evening to ensure she cleans her eyes. I occasionally see her drink, usually after her misting session in the evening. I plan on programming my MistKing to emulate this schedule, though I might give myself a window for handmisting just because it gives me an excuse to observe her and check my plants. And I enjoy it. hoto

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

All of Lily's bowel movements so far have been normal and healthy in appearance: medium brown and well formed, with solid white urates. Lily tested positive for pinworms (mild case) on April 28th, and has had her first dose of Panacur (fenbendazole). She's due for a recheck fecal in ~9 days, +/- a follow up dose of Panacur.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Lily's full history can be found here, but essentially she was an ailing pet store chameleon that had been slowly deteriorating. They had her for about 8 or so months, and their husbandry was lacking. Lily has issues with her eyes (squinting/closed during the day, slightly misshapen) and has a couple mouth lesions, the latter of which I believe were caused by her rubbing her eyes and mouth on branches/other surfaces. I've recieved medications for both problems - EyeStream ophthalmic irritating solution and 3-Biotic +H for her eyes, and betadine + Flamazine (silver sulfadiazine) for her lesions. All meds are applied 1-2 times daily.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Currently a 16x16x30 ReptiBreeze. Upgrading to a 36x18x36 ExoTerra bioactive enclosure as soon as possible (within the next 2-3 months, hopefully!!).

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Lights are 7am-7pm. Currently running a ReptiSun LED UVB hood with a 5.0 ReptiSun linear bulb, and a mini deep dome with a 50w incandescent bulb for basking. For the upgraded enclosure, I'll be running a T5HO quad with 1 6% Arcadia, 2 6500k daylights, and a plant pro bulb.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Cage floor is 69-70F, basking is 82-85 at the screen itself. Lowest overnight temp I've recorded is 68. Temps are measured with a digital thermometer and a temp gun (IR thermometer)

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Humidity holds steady between 50-70, 80+ immediately after misting. Humidity is currently created solely through misting, and the enclosure is wrapped in 3 sides a shower curtain. I measure with a digital hydrometer. Eventually I'd like to run a fogger/cool mist humidifier overnight from 12-4am.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

There are currently 2 varieties of pothos (golden, pearls and jade), a schefflera, and an unidentified bromeliad in the enclosure. I have many more plants, but no more room in the cage, haha!

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

The enclosure is on top of my dresser in the sleeping nook of my basement suite, and the top of the cage is a bit over 6 feet from the ground. It's a low traffic area to begin with (just me), and is blocked off from the rest of the room by a room divider. There's a vent on the floor ~ 3 feet from the cage.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

I live in Kelowna, BC.

Current Problem - I feel that I have things fairly well in hand, but I'm always open to improvement!!

Note: due to the size of her current enclosure, Lily has an external lay bin with play sand and organic top soil. She's weighed weekly to keep an eye on development, and currently weighs 48g (unlikely to be gravid).

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Im really impressed that you took her on! Very fortunate for her that you found her. We know most would not. I like how you enclosure is set up. Makes me happy to know there are still good folks out there!!

 

[Beman]

I had a pet rat who recently passed. He helped me trap my first Red Tailed hawk. He was never in any danger and never hurt. His reward was becoming a Connaisseur of fine cheeses and home grown veggies! He passed and I got Thomas. Ratman was 6 years old!

Yeah my daughter wanted a Rat and ended up saving a 4 week old feeder rat. She is only 4 months old now. I discovered a week after bringing her home that she had lice and mites. So $250 later worth of vet treatments she is finally healthy. She has become pretty much my rat now as she never tamed down enough for my daughter to handle. She is so sweet. But yeah I totally get the benefits of feeding pinky mice but it would hurt my heart too much. I’m a big sap that way lol

 

[GoodKarma19]

Good mommy so proud of you. I cant do the mice thing. I know great source of natural Vitamin A but we have a pet Rat... I would feel like I was killing her lol.

Thank you! I admit to making a face when Lily chomped down and I heard everything going "crunch crunch"! But she sure seemed to enjoy it, so I'll take one for the team. I gave the isopod cultures a pinky each as well, see if they like 'em. I definitely understand not wanting to feed mice/rats/etc... im not sure if I'd ever be able to feed a live rodent, but frozen/thawed is easy enough for me to stomach!

I had a pet rat who recently passed. He helped me trap my first Red Tailed hawk. He was never in any danger and never hurt. His reward was becoming a Connaisseur of fine cheeses and home grown veggies! He passed and I got Thomas. Ratman was 6 years old!

Haha! That's one way of using your noggin! 6 years is an incredible age, too - good on you! I'm really very fond of rats. We see a lot of pet rats at work, and I always like working with them. They have a lot of personality, and make very good pets! The one downside is their short lifespan (usually 2-4 years, tops) and tendency to develop tumors and cancer.

Im really impressed that you took her on! Very fortunate for her that you found her. We know most would not. I like how you enclosure is set up. Makes me happy to know there are still good folks out there!!

And thank you! I'm a big softie, and can never turn down an animal in need... especially birds and reptiles. Most of my pets have been unintended! I never regret a moment of it, especially if I can educate others in the process.

Enclosure building/maintenance is becoming one of my favorite parts of the hobby! Just a few more weeks...

 

[JIFFYPOP]

Yeah my daughter wanted a Rat and ended up saving a 4 week old feeder rat. She is only 4 months old now. I discovered a week after bringing her home that she had lice and mites. So $250 later worth of vet treatments she is finally healthy. She has become pretty much my rat now as she never tamed down enough for my daughter to handle. She is so sweet. But yeah I totally get the benefits of feeding pinky mice but it would hurt my heart too much. I’m a big sap that way lol

I used to think mice & rats where just food for bigger pets, lol. Then I watched my buddy's pet redtail catfish eat a baby rat. Seen a bunch of mice eaten by snakes, but that was too much.

 

[JoXie411]

Lily went on a bit of a hunger strike this week, and has been laying on her basking branch with her eyes closed a lot. Definitely no bueno! I was going to bring her to the vet tomorrow, but she's much perkier today and back to eating and doing normal chameleon things after I brought her outside for some sun and "convinced" her to eat a tiny pinky mouse (read: I popped one in her mouth). They're chock full of vitamins, so hopefully it'll do her some good! (Disclaimer: pinky mice will only be a once a month sort of deal.) She happily hunted down a couple crickets on her own afterward, and is back at basking - with her eyes open this time!

Hmmm I wonder if a pinky would be good for Imelda right now

 

[Beman]

I used to think mice & rats where just food for bigger pets, lol. Then I watched my buddy's pet redtail catfish eat a baby rat. Seen a bunch of mice eating by snakes, but that was too much.

Yeah I am better with feeding dead. Live feeding crushes me. Personally I could not do either tho.

 

[Beman]

Hmmm I wonder if a pinky would be good for Imelda right now

It probably would be.