Liquid Calcium for MBD?

[kelsxox]

I've been talking to JannB about my poor little girl who i just found out has MBD thanks to the forumns, if not for this site i might have never known! .. I've had her for about 4 days now! I just started giving her Repta-Aid with a little bit of powder calcium mixed with it as of yesturday because she was not eating .. Jann told me to get some Liquid Calcium as it would help with her MBD, so i've got Exo Terra Calcium Liquid Supplement and Exo terra Calcium without D3 powder supplement i'll still be giving her everyday with the Calcium liquid supplement? Is this right? Just making sure, don't want to do something without checking first.. & how will i give her this liquid calciumm .. Please help

Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - Vielded, female, 6-7 months old. In my care for about 4 days.
• Handling - Once or twice a day, for cleaning, or giving her Repta-Aid.
• Feeding - Crikets, about 8 a day (hasn't been eating since in new habitat, thats what the repta-aids for) 4 in the morning 4 in the after noon. Gutloading with Carrots, Sweet Potato, Romaince Lettuce.
• Supplements -
Exo Terra Powder Calcium Supplement- Everyday
Exo Terra Powder Multi Vitamin Supplement- Once every 2 weeks.
Exo Terra Powder Calcium+d3 Supplement- Once every 2 weeks.
New Exo Terra Liquid Calcium Supplement- Everyday?? Need help on this one.
• Watering - Built my own water dripper out of a water bottle, misting 3-4 times a day, & i mist the whole cage, and i see her liking the leaves every now and then after i mist.
• Fecal Description - Dark brown sometimes light brown with white on it? . Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Not that I know of.
• History - She has MBD, from the feedbacks on here they've told me it's not very advanced yet & if i do the right prosedures i can prevent it from getting any worse. (i'll include pictures)

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - LARGE Repti-Breeze cage.
• Lighting -
18'' 15 watt ReptiSun 5.0
18'' 15 watt Nature Sun (Both hooked up on to a Exo Terra Light Cycle Unit Programed for 12 hours on 12 off.
50 watt ZooMed Basking Light.
• Plants - Need to add new live plants, with ORGANIC SOIL & rocks to cover it.. still trying to find the right kind of plant.
• Placement - It's on top of a night stand in the spare bedroom, so she has her own privacy.
• Location - Timmins Ontario (It Gets cold here!)

This is my repti breeze, (the bowls gone & the sands gone)

 

[jannb]

She sure is a pretty little girl. I hope that she will be ok. You will need calcium glubionate. You might be interested in reading this. It's my vet that saved Jack. https://www.chameleonforums.com/meet-jack-worse-case-mbd-ive-ever-seen-42097/

 

[kelsxox]

She sure is a pretty little girl. I hope that she will be ok. You will need calcium glubionate. You might be interested in reading this. It's my vet that saved Jack. https://www.chameleonforums.com/meet-jack-worse-case-mbd-ive-ever-seen-42097/

I hope she will too, i'm gonna be giving her another dose of the repta-aid soon, gonna give it to her on a squedule everday at 6 oclock and moniter if she starts eating.. her grips still very strong so i believe its not too bad yet.. will the exo terra liquid calcium do it?? what is glubionate & where can i order it from? there's not a very big variety so i'd need a website that sells it.

 

[thephotoprincess]

You may want to stop the Repta-Aid and give her time to settle in and see it she eats on her own. Put some crickets in a cup and give her a couple days.

You can give the liquid calcium in a syringe.

 

[laurie]

Try a drug store, if you can't locate it send a pm to hoj. He lives up your way and will know how to get it. Hope all goes well. Jannb is a good resource on this, so I am sure she will help you with it.

 

[kelsxox]

You may want to stop the Repta-Aid and give her time to settle in and see it she eats on her own. Put some crickets in a cup and give her a couple days.

You can give the liquid calcium in a syringe.

I've givin her one treatment yesturday of the repta aid with alittle bit of powder calcium mixed in with it..& it seems like its already showing results, I'm woundering if i should put the exo terra liquid calcium in with it today.. how many drops should i put of it, 2?

The liquid exo terra Calcium says its a drinking water conditioner will this effect with the repta aid in any way? Should i put one drop of the liquid and a little bit of powder mixed??

 

[jannb]

I hope she will too, i'm gonna be giving her another dose of the repta-aid soon, gonna give it to her on a squedule everday at 6 oclock and moniter if she starts eating.. her grips still very strong so i believe its not too bad yet.. will the exo terra liquid calcium do it?? what is glubionate & where can i order it from? there's not a very big variety so i'd need a website that sells it.

You can buy calcium glubionate here and on eBay.
http://www.petsupplies4less.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=29236

I'm not sure about the exo terra liquid calcium. I'm not sure if it's the same thing. I'll do a search on it.

I just found this about the exo terra liquid calcium and it says it's something to treat drinking water with so it's not the right stuff.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/calcium.php

Also when you use a syringe to give the liquid calcium do not use a needle, just the syringe.

 

[clarkrw3]

You can buy calcium glubionate here and on eBay.
http://www.petsupplies4less.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=29236

I'm not sure about the exo terra liquid calcium. I'm not sure if it's the same thing. I'll do a search on it.

I believe that is where I got my calcium glubionate from. And i do not believe that the exo terra is the same....it is mint mix in with water for drinking.

 

[laurie]

You can buy calcium glubionate here and on eBay.
http://www.petsupplies4less.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=29236

I'm not sure about the exo terra liquid calcium. I'm not sure if it's the same thing. I'll do a search on it.

I just found this about the exo terra liquid calcium and it says it's something to treat drinking water with so it's not the right stuff.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/calcium.php

Also when you use a syringe to give the liquid calcium do not use a needle, just the syringe.

The problem is I am not sure they will ship to Canada, and if they will hom long it will take to get there.

 

[kinyonga]

You should be able to buy calcium gluconate or calcium sandoz liquid in a pharmacy.
BTW its important that the calcium be corrected...but also that the calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are in balance.

You mention having the cage on a counter top...is it in your kitchen?

Here's some information I hope will help you with supplementing, etc.....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[kelsxox]

You can buy calcium glubionate here and on eBay.
http://www.petsupplies4less.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=29236

I'm not sure about the exo terra liquid calcium. I'm not sure if it's the same thing. I'll do a search on it.

I just found this about the exo terra liquid calcium and it says it's something to treat drinking water with so it's not the right stuff.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/calcium.php

Also when you use a syringe to give the liquid calcium do not use a needle, just the syringe.

no, lol no worries! I got a syringe with the repta aid (no needles!), that's what i've been using.. I gently open her mouth a little and the she starts slowly opening and closing as i give it to her! Thanks

 

[kelsxox]

You should be able to buy calcium gluconate or calcium sandoz liquid in a pharmacy.
BTW its important that the calcium be corrected...but also that the calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are in balance.

You mention having the cage on a counter top...is it in your kitchen?

Here's some information I hope will help you with supplementing, etc.....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

Her cage is not in the kitchen, i said it was in the SPARE bedroom, so she has her privacy.. It's on a night stand/table thats secure and its against a wall in the corner.

& would you be able to explain to me what phosphorus is , i seen that on one of the instructions to my supplements said 1:1 ratio and i didn't understand what that ment .. so if you could explain it that would be great.

My powder Calcium is low phosphorus, but my calcium+d3 is phosphorus free, and my multi vitamins say it contains vitamin A from beta carotene.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry...don't know why I thought you said it was on a counter.

You said..."would you be able to explain to me what phosphorus is"...among other things, phosphorus is a mineral that is a big component in bones.

 

[kelsxox]

no problem, must have just misread it.. What are the recommended temperatures for in her basking area 80 to 85? and atleast 60 for at night?

This calcium gluconiate is for humans also? Is that why it's available at a pharmacy or is there a special brand/kind for chams?

 

[kinyonga]

Yes, the calcium sandoz and gluconate that you buy at the pharmacy are for humans.

Also...at her age I would recommend putting an opaque container at least 12" deep x 12" x 8" filled with moist playsand in her cage in case she needs to lay eggs. They can lay eggs without having mated and failure to provide them a spot to lay them can lead to eggbinding.

80 to 85F is good for her temperatures in the day time.

 

[kelsxox]

Yes, the calcium sandoz and gluconate that you buy at the pharmacy are for humans.

Also...at her age I would recommend putting an opaque container at least 12" deep x 12" x 8" filled with moist playsand in her cage in case she needs to lay eggs. They can lay eggs without having mated and failure to provide them a spot to lay them can lead to eggbinding.

80 to 85F is good for her temperatures in the day time.

Are there usually signs when shes going to lay her eggs ? & almost like one of those big yogurt containers but bigger ? WOuld the desert blend crushed walnut sand i got be good ? & would i just mist it as well to keep it moist ?

Also, is the calcium glubionate from the pharmacy the same thing jannb is talking about ? That id feed her through a syringe?

 

[kinyonga]

There are signs but often they are missed or sometimes the chameleon doesn't show all the signs. The signs include but are not limited to...roaming the cage to look for a site, chameleon looks fatter in the back end of the body, may stop eating a few days before laying, drinking more, basking more, etc. Because these signs are easy to miss its recommended that the container of sand be placed in the cage and left there once the female is sexually mature.

I've never used anything but sand for years. It worked for me so I didn't change it. Other people have used other things and they've had success with them...so its something you will have to decide.

I don't remember what Jann said...I've always used a liquid calcium sandoz or gluconate from the pharmacy.

 

[kelsxox]

There are signs but often they are missed or sometimes the chameleon doesn't show all the signs. The signs include but are not limited to...roaming the cage to look for a site, chameleon looks fatter in the back end of the body, may stop eating a few days before laying, drinking more, basking more, etc. Because these signs are easy to miss its recommended that the container of sand be placed in the cage and left there once the female is sexually mature.

I've never used anything but sand for years. It worked for me so I didn't change it. Other people have used other things and they've had success with them...so its something you will have to decide.

I don't remember what Jann said...I've always used a liquid calcium sandoz or gluconate from the pharmacy.

What do the eggs look like? I found some weird goey stuff at the bottom of her cage today , and it definatly does not look like poop. I've got a picture of it on my other thread... She pretty much stays in the same spot during the day right under the basking light or she'll move to get some shade or when i'm misting. She's starting to eat again so thats good, getting some calcium in her!