Liquid calcium problem, can I make it myslef?

[Lathelia]

Hi,
I have a gravid female and she doesn't eat much. I would like to give her liquid calcium, but cannot find any. I could probably order one from abroad, but it would take a few days to deliver...
So the only ones I found are for reef tanks, would they be suitable for my girl? Or maybe I could just make one myself from a calcium powder?

 

[tkilgour]

Hi,
I have a gravid female and she doesn't eat much. I would like to give her liquid calcium, but cannot find any. I could probably order one from abroad, but it would take a few days to deliver...
So the only ones I found are for reef tanks, would they be suitable for my girl? Or maybe I could just make one myself from a calcium powder?

The calcium for reef tanks, says not safe for human consumption, keep away from children.

I would suggest the real stuff before experimenting with reef supplements.

 

[Lathelia]

The calcium for reef tanks, says not safe for human consumption, keep away from children.

I would suggest the real stuff before experimenting with reef supplements.

Ok, thanks. My cham's supplement also aren't for humans, so I thought I would ask
So can I just mix powder calcium with water? And in what proportions?

 

[jannb]

I buy my liquid calcium from my vet. I do believe it's different from the powder supplement.

 

[GabeCastro]

I know you stated you don't want to wait for shipping, but heres the same liquid calcium herp vets use.

Maybe you can find it floating around somewhere, or check your local herp vets to see if they carry any of it. I'm sure they can give you a small sample. 16oz is ALLOT but i just ordered some for my cham

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calcium-Glu...926&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=2&sd=330713183056&

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00112G29O...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B00112G29O

 

[DrRhymes]

Recently I went to the vet and easily got calcium glubionate. It was also fairly inexpensive and I bought over the counter without the need for a check up. The powder is calcium carbonate and is not helpful for gravid females.

 

[jannb]

I know you stated you don't want to wait for shipping, but heres the same liquid calcium herp vets use.

Maybe you can find it floating around somewhere, or check your local herp vets to see if they carry any of it. I'm sure they can give you a small sample. 16oz is ALLOT but i just ordered some for my cham

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calcium-Glu...926&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=2&sd=330713183056&

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00112G29O...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B00112G29O

I'm getting an excellent deal from my vet. His is only $10.00.

 

[GabeCastro]

I'm getting an excellent deal from my vet. His is only $10.00.

really!?!? hahah oh god...lol

Here are some words from Dr. O about my order -

LOL! That's probably too bad since the dosage is 0.1ml per hundred gram chameleon. It'll take you a few hundred years to finish the bottle!

 

[DrRhymes]

I'm getting an excellent deal from my vet. His is only $10.00.

Me too . It was only 11 dollars and very easy to get.

 

[azgnoinc]

Here is another liquid calcium, though I have NOT used this and I am NOT endorsing it just listing an alternative:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+6057+24282&pcatid=24282

It's from Flukers and is only $7.49 on this website - the ingredients read as follows: Water, Calcium Chloride and Calcium Lactate.

I think we need to get one of our resident Vets to let us know what's in the Calcium Glubionate versus the Flukers variety - cause if it's the same thing there is no need to pay 3x's the amount.

 

[DrRhymes]

I am not a vet but the forms of calcium found in the flukers calcium is an additive which you should include in your reptiles diet to avoid calcium deficiencies over time. Where as calcium glubionate is a fast acting calcium replenish-er that you can give to your chameleon quickly/ orally in a concentrated dose .1ml usually

 

[Lathelia]

Thank you all so much, I guess I will be ordering one from Uk..

Here is another liquid calcium, though I have NOT used this and I am NOT endorsing it just listing an alternative:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+6057+24282&pcatid=24282

It's from Flukers and is only $7.49 on this website - the ingredients read as follows: Water, Calcium Chloride and Calcium Lactate.

I think we need to get one of our resident Vets to let us know what's in the Calcium Glubionate versus the Flukers variety - cause if it's the same thing there is no need to pay 3x's the amount.

Thanks, it's not really about the money (though I hate paying twice more then the product it worth, just because it's shipped from abroad), but more about time. My girl is gravid and I don't know how "far" prego she is

 

[amanda509]

i dont know about anyone else, but ive used the zilla liquid calcium that you spray on feeders and veggies and stuff. it says right on the bottle for mbd or as a pure calcium supplement, use one to two drops daily. this has completely halted the mbd in the rescue cave gecko i had gotten, so it obviously works

i also used a few doses of this stuff, but since referred back to the zilla calcium because i was afraid of overdosing (the gecko weighed 12 grams ) and the zilla is more watered down. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Calciumglub.html

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Let's see if I can shed some light here...the differences in the supplements listed so far are the type of calcium salt in the ingredients, and more importantly the concentration. There are a few reasons for different calcium salts specifically in human medicine (interactions with the parathyroid gland, lactose intolerance, propensity to form kidney stones due to other interactions, etc) and thus there are many that have been investigated and formulated. Now that they are readily available in multiple forms it is easier to see different types of calcium salts for human products in the ingredients list of reptile products. Some stay in solution better at certain pH, or with certain flavorings. The big picture though is that in reptiles, it really doesn't matter what form the calcium is in. What I worry more about is the concentration to make sure they're getting enough of the elemental calcium. And what "enough" is varies based on the need (lower for maintenance than for MBD for example).

Some brain food (from someone smarter than I):
Calcium Acetate 1g = 12.6mEq, 253mg, 6.30mmol
Calcium Carbonate 1g = 19.9mEq, 400mg, 9.96mmol
Calcium Citrate 1g = 10.5mEq, 211mg, 5.26mmol
Calcium Chloride 1g= 13.6mEq, 273mg, 6.80mmol
Calcium Glubionate 1g = 3.29mEq, 66mg, 1.64mmol
Calcium Gluceptate 1g= 4.08mEq, 82mg, 2.04mmol
Calcium Gluconate 1g= 4.65mEq, 93mg, 2.32mmol

Calcium glubionate is 23.6mg/ml (1.8g/5ml = 118mg/5ml ( 1.8 X 66 mg) elemental calcium). The dosage for treatment for MBD is around 66mg elemental calcium per kg given orally twice daily but most vets use 1ml/kg Calcium glubionate quite successfully, which would be 23.6mg/kg. Calcium glubionate is readily available OTC most places, and we know it is absorbed well in reptiles and comes in a consistent form easily adjusted for large or small reptiles so that is generally the primary recommendation for liquid supplementation in the veterinary world.

Soooo....let's talk about some of the supplements listed.
- The Zilla spray supplement - they list calcium in ppm, which to change to mg/ml I need the density of the overall solution. Based on the fact that you spray it on I am skeptical that it would be enough since the spray dilutes it. But without the true concentration it is difficult to evaluate.
- Fluker's Liquid Calcium for Reptiles - Listed as no less than 6%, which would mean at least 60mg/ml of calcium if the percentage applies to elemental form calcium (not really specified - if they mean 6% calcium chloride then that would make it 16.38mg/ml elemental calcium).

So you can see why there is so much confusion around the different types because there is a lack of consistency in how the ingredients and concentrations are listed, and the type of ingredients influences the amount of elemental calcium. That's one of the reasons we in the vet field also chose one forumlation that we know is consistent to recommend to make it less confusing. In the end, the type of calcium salt doesn't matter in itself, but will influence how much elemental calcium there is available. I got some calcium glubionate for my gravid girl and MBD tortoises and dose it based on the 1ml/kg recommendation. For my gravid cham I give her a drop twice a week. Here's some more info on https://www.chameleonforums.com/liquid-calcium-quad-female-tips-info-94815/#post882300"]dosing.

As for making a homemade formulation of liquid calcium...too complicated. Not delving into that. If your female is eating at all then you should be able to heavily dust those feeders until you can get a formulated product that is reliable.

The powder is calcium carbonate and is not helpful for gravid females.

Not true at all.

 

[Lathelia]

Wow, that's a lot of good info! Thanks you so much for it