Lola's Necropsy

[draetish]

WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS
When Lola died 12-29-09, I wrapped her up in a cloth and put her in a gallon ziplock bag and placed her in the freezer since it was too cold to bury her. I’m glad I did now and let me tell you, I had sleepless nights trying to make the decision to do the Necropsy. My reason was to learn more about chameleons and especially finding out what happened to Lola.

just so you know what the issue was: On 11-21-09 I took Lola and Rocko to the vet to be weighed and I mentioned Lola's grayish skin on her flap and the vet prescribed Baytril.

I didn't cry when Lola died since I knew she was very ill and I think I was relieved that she was not suffering anymore. I did cry after writing this as it has brought closure for me, but also a lot of guilt. It was my lack of knowledge about her skin necrosis and treatments that I feel lead to her rapid deterioration because 39 days earlier she was absolutely fine. At least I'm not ashamed to admit it and hopefully it will help others.

This was the hardest thing I think I've ever done and I wanted to share my experience with everyone to give them food for thought. I don't want to discourage anyone from seeking veterinarian care, just go in with some idea of the problem and information to help aid the vet.

My daughter who is a medical student and has witnessed human autopsies studied the step by step instructions by Dr. Tom Greek M.S., D.V.M. and actually performed the necrospy. I took the pictures and documentation. We first opened Lola up and examined her intact. We then began to carefully remove each organ and examine it. All the organs looked normal except her stomach, colan and intestines. Her stomach was full of slimy foam and her colan and intestines were black and had blood in them.

THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 10 PICTURES AND I CAN'T FIT THEM ALL IN THIS FIRST THREAD. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS 1ST THREAD SO I CAN POST THE NEXT SET OF PICTURES.

 

[draetish]

Last of photos:

 

[laurie]

First Donna I want to say thank you for both doing this and sharing it with us. I know you loved Lola so I am sure this was really hard for you. I don't know a sufficient about chameleon anatomy to know what all the organs are but it does give me a reference of what I should see and what I should not see. I am now going to do some research so I can fully understand the necropsy. Again I am so sorry you lost Lola.

 

[draetish]

The pictures are labeled if that might help. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[Miss Lily]

Thank you for being strong enough to do the necropsy yourself and for sharing the info. I know how hard it is to post 'happier' pics when you lose a special cham, so I appreciate how very difficult this has been for you. I really don't think I could do that myself.

 

[Courtney]

Thank you for being strong enough to do the necropsy yourself and for sharing the info. I know how hard it is to post 'happier' pics when you lose a special cham, so I appreciate how very difficult this has been for you. I really don't think I could do that myself.

i think if a cham dies without a clue why you would do it if you couldnt afford to have it done....when my senegal dies my mom froze him till she could burr him/her...otis jus droped dead...i told her not to bury him cause i wanted to see him first...she knows me too well and said no cause your going to disect him and hes to sweet to do that to...in a way im glad she buried him and in a way id love to see what made him just die so suddenly...my theorey i tell myself is seaperation anxiety a necropsy with nothing in it to show a cause would have confirmed......when i go home to GA i plan to dig otis up and see what there is to see if anything.....id like to have a full skeleton model of a cham...morbid but i think educational

 

[jojackson]

Did the vet suggest anything in particular after looking at her organs/photo's of, Donna? likely cause?
Thanks for sharing what may be valuable information for others keepers now and in the future. Let go of guilt, it dosen't serve much purpous.
Here's hoping for a better experience with your next lizard.
Best wishes

 

[Carlton]

i think if a cham dies without a clue why you would do it if you couldnt afford to have it done....when my senegal dies my mom froze him till she could burr him/her...otis jus droped dead...i told her not to bury him cause i wanted to see him first...she knows me too well and said no cause your going to disect him and hes to sweet to do that to...in a way im glad she buried him and in a way id love to see what made him just die so suddenly...my theorey i tell myself is seaperation anxiety a necropsy with nothing in it to show a cause would have confirmed......when i go home to GA i plan to dig otis up and see what there is to see if anything.....id like to have a full skeleton model of a cham...morbid but i think educational

If someone hopes to have another cham in future a necropsy could tell you if your care or inexperience caused its death or not. Something very very valuable to know. Most chams don't die suddenly...they are sick for a long time but are very good at hiding their problems until they just can't handle them any longer. A cham in the wild (such as your Senegal who was most likely wildcaught) who looks sick or weak is more likely to be attacked by a predator, so looking healthy and aggressive is their way of fooling other animals. A necropsy needs to be done right away after something dies. Freezing or burying the animal destroys the tissue and will make a necropsy useless.

 

[Carlton]

Am I seeing egg follicles?

 

[jojackson]

Am I seeing egg follicles?

It appears so, yes. Im thinking this may have been a major probable contributing issue undetected.
Be worth sending those photos to the vet if you havent yet Donna.

 

[gabzzy]

Thats so very BRAVE of you, gee, i'm crying just thinking what you went thru! I would have to beleave it's a wonderful thing to deeply looking into the issue like 4 you did, I may profit from it at any time ; and I wish to offer my condulances for your Lil Luv Bug; it's killing me that you went thru it and came out a winner; so here ;united we stand ; may your LuvBug RIP.

 

[draetish]

Here is the history of her health:

10/30/09 I posted pics of Lola and everyone said she was a looker.

10/31/09 she started a shed and it lasted a few days.

11/06/09 I asked why she didn’t have a horn. Lola still looking good.

11/20/09 I posted Lola’s poop that looked fine, nice white urates and brown poop.

11/20/09 I posted “Fungus on Flap” which I noticed about a month prior.

11/21/09 First Vet visit. My main reason was to get Lola’s and Rocko’s weight and set them up with the vet. I mentioned Lola’s flap and the vet said it was a “Systemic Bacterial Infection” and started her on Baytril .1cc for (7) days and Panolog Ointment. She weighed 336 grams and was 10” svl.

11/30/09 Lola’s throat swelled up and appeared to be Edema.

12/05/09 Back to vet for a re-check and fecal (negative). The vet wanted me to put her back on Baytril as the infection was not clearing and the skin was black and decaying around the edge of the flap. The vet did not want to do a tissue sample. I posted "Baytril" and asked how long a cham should be on it.

12/24/09 6:30 am I woke up and checked on Lola and noticed she was very dark and had foam on the side of her mouth. She was also very lethargic and weak. We opened her mouth and she had black spots and stringy saliva. 8:30 am rushed her back to the vet where she gave her a Cefazolin injection and had me do daily injections for (10) days. She also injected her with fluids and did a Chlorhexiderm flush. At 12:30 pm my Daughter checked on Lola and her eyes were closed and she was very dark.

12/26/09 I have been giving Lola water as she will not drink on her own. I put her in the shower and she drank and drank and drank, she was also breathing heavy. She will not open her eyes unless I rub her tail and then it is only for a moment.

12/28/09 My daughter checked on Lola about 10:00 am and she had fallen to the floor and had a bloody, slimy, loose bowel movement hanging out of her. I rushed home from work and we took her to the vet which was a different one at same location. The first vet said that he had more experience than her and that she has done all she knew how to do. He examined Lola and gave me the grim news that he wouldn't blame me if I put her down. He left the room and as I was holding Lola, I asked her if it was time to let her go. She opened her eyes and looked up at me. Then I thought, was that a yes or no? Keep in mind that her eyes have been closed for the past 4 days. I decided to keep going. He gave Lola Panacur as a preventive measure. He also injected her stomach with 35 cc of fluids. The syringe was huge and it looked to me like a half a glass of water. On the ride home Lola had her eyes open and looking around. I thought, awesome she’s doing better.

12/29/09 I woke up and Lola was gone. She was lying on the floor of her cage and had a bloody, slimy, loose bowel movement next to her. It was 39 days from her first vet visit to her death.

I have not confered with the vet on her Necropsy yet and not sure if I am.

Yes, she had eggs. The smallest one being the size of a BB and the largest ones the size of a pea. There were approximately 60 eggs.

Melleri Discovery has this to say:
“Baytril... commonly prescribed broad spectrum antibiotic. In melleri, it can cause edema, lethargy, anorexia1, and in anaphylactic reactions, immediate fatality.2 Any melleri patient on Baytril should be kept very well hydrated and kidney function (uric production) and appetite should be watched closely.3 Common sense says it is safer to have a culture and sensitivity done to determine the best antibiotic for the job, rather than waste time and risk by "shotgunning" with Baytril first. Up to two weeks is the standard duration a chameleon should get Baytril.4 A melleri has died of renal complications after three weeks on Baytril.5”

I am not saying Baytril was the cause, but what I am saying is that this is the information I wish I had prior to her treatment.

I have tried to find information on bloody, loose stools in chams and can't find anything same with the slimy, foam in her mouth and then found in her stomach and can't find any info.

Here are the pictures of her on 12-26-09 and then on 12-28-09 after the vet visit and He gave Lola Panacur as a preventive measure[/B]. He also injected her stomach with 35 cc of fluids. The syringe was huge and it looked to me like a half a glass of water. Picture on her poop the morning she passed.

 

[draetish]

It appears so, yes. Im thinking this may have been a major probable contributing issue undetected.
Be worth sending those photos to the vet if you havent yet Donna.

Julie posted this pic of an egg and they are about the size of a quarter. Lola's eggs were the smallest being the size of a BB and the largest being the size of a pea.