Male veiled - unusual colors?

[bearhart]

Here is a picture of Bones:

The picture was taken through the screen with a crappy camera. The colors are right, just sort of washed out. I tried for a picture with the screen open but he high-tailed it.

Anyway, this is how he looks all the time. When he was a baby he was green but had markedly intense spots. As he got older he started to pick up more and more of this salmon color and then eventually turned into this rich chocolaty color. He turns bright green when he sleeps. He turned almost completely yellow once when one of my larger snakes started to take an interest in his cage!

I've never seen a picture of a veiled like this so I'm curious if he's a different sub-species or what...

 

[beenpanced]

He certainly is unique. Have you tried showing him a mirror to see what he looks like "fired up"? I would be intrested to see what he looks like......

 

[Sang]

definatly a military camouflage coloring.

he looks cool. try to lure him out on a branch and when he isn't lookin snap a few photos.

 

[bearhart]

wow - a mirror. I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Funny thing about chams, eh? They look incredible when they're upset!

I'll get some better pictures tomorrow w/o a screen!

 

[Miss becky]

odd colouring but how luvly looking i've put my male veiled infront of a mirror before by accident and well lets just say he wasnt happy.....at all lol he did go some really cool colours and had some luvly markings on him though if i do it again i'll try and get some photos

 

[tryme]

I like him lucky you.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

If he's showing brighter colors at night, he's stressing during the day. My big male did this for almost 2 years before he "relaxed" and started showing bright colors all day.

A move into a higher cage also helped.

Try is setting his cage up as high as possible.

Do you find that he brightens up when he's eating? If so, it may just be beacuse he's young - they go through a "Brown phase" sometimes before being fully grown.

My year olds are all going through that now.

 

[tryme]

Thats not really true. Chameleons do become brighter at night.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Most chameleons have a sleep coloration, which in the case with veileds, is usually their relaxed color. When stressed, they will only show this color at night - when they're not stressed.

Often, the sleep color is brighter - but not always - than their normal colors. When showing a drastic difference - like this one - it's usually a stress color. Try letting him roam free for a few minutes, in a large tree in the house - odds are he'll brighten up.

The real trick is getting a cage that is safe and small enough to keep in your house, while at the same time keeping the animals happy and bright. My big male hated reptariums, and only relaxed in a cage if it was several feet up off the floor.

 

[tryme]

Most of the time chams get brighter at night thats why in the wild in africa and madegascar etc they look for them at night with torches.

 

[dodolah]

Hi Tryme, Eric has a point.
Here is an excerpt from my last interview with Dr. Gary W Ferguson:

I have always wondered about a certain behavior that chameleons display. Why do they go brighter and lighter during sleeping? In my simple reasoning, this seems to be contradictory to evolutionary behavior. Why go all the trouble camouflaging itself in the day and go bright during the night where some predators are active?


Dr Ferguson's answers:

The behavior (movement, repositioning expansion etc.) of chromatophores (pigment bearing skin cells) is an energy dependent process. At night chameleons simply shut down the active process, chromatophore pigments contract, and the animal lightens. Because their natural nocturnal predators are not dependent on color vision, there has been no natural selection for them to maintain the active process while they sleep, just for them to save energy. We are new "color-vision" predators that exploit the conspicuousness that results when they are sleeping. Rest assured that should we be around long enough to exert significant natural selection, nocturnal cryptic coloration will possibly evolve in those exploited species (1000 to10, 000 generations or so down the line).


So, at night, chameleon turn bright because he/she is not using energy AKA at a relax moment.

Bearhart, the best way to find out is to try to take him to sun outside in your backyard that has lots of trees when weather permits.
Chances are your chameleon will go green and bright.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

yeah...that... hehe.

Most people who have veileds that are "atypically" colored - maroon, brown, etc. - simply have stressed animals. young veiled males often seem to be stressed no matter their surroundings. Possibly, it's a normal behavior - they're not out to impress anyone at that age. All they need to do is survive.

When they're mature, their normal colors are less cryptic, and much brighter. A stressed male will show brown and dull colors. If your veiled is brown and dull, chances are that something's not quite right in his surroundings.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Hi Tryme, Eric has a point.
Here is an excerpt from my last interview with Dr. Gary W Ferguson:

I have always wondered about a certain behavior that chameleons display. Why do they go brighter and lighter during sleeping? In my simple reasoning, this seems to be contradictory to evolutionary behavior. Why go all the trouble camouflaging itself in the day and go bright during the night where some predators are active?


Dr Ferguson's answers:

The behavior (movement, repositioning expansion etc.) of chromatophores (pigment bearing skin cells) is an energy dependent process. At night chameleons simply shut down the active process, chromatophore pigments contract, and the animal lightens. Because their natural nocturnal predators are not dependent on color vision, there has been no natural selection for them to maintain the active process while they sleep, just for them to save energy. We are new "color-vision" predators that exploit the conspicuousness that results when they are sleeping. Rest assured that should we be around long enough to exert significant natural selection, nocturnal cryptic coloration will possibly evolve in those exploited species (1000 to10, 000 generations or so down the line).


So, at night, chameleon turn bright because he/she is not using energy AKA at a relax moment.

Bearhart, the best way to find out is to try to take him to sun outside in your backyard that has lots of trees when weather permits.
Chances are your chameleon will go green and bright.

That is a gret explination. Thanks for sharing.

 

[bearhart]

hmmm - definate food for thought.

I really don't feel like this is a stress color for a few reasons:

1) He showed unique coloration, even as a hatchling. Also, his development showed a clear transition to his current coloration.
2) I'm not cham expert, but he's my second and I do have some idea of color transitions form my first. To me, the picture clearly appears to be his "emotionally neutral" coloration. I guess he could be stressed all the time but his behavior doesn't indicate that. Also, he changes color when he's angry or afraid. I mean, he's got a decent setup - it seems he would have turned green at least occasionally.
3) Warming him or putting him in the sun does not turn him green.

What other things could I try to test? He's in a 2x2x4 screen cage just like my other cham (who's green). Also, he's elevated well off the ground.

Now, what is interesting is that he's always been very high strung and very aggressive. When he eats, he often picks the crickets that are *farthest* away - seemingly out of sport. He's toned down a bit, but in his earlier days, he would hunt every cricket down mercilessly immediately after they were put into the cage. He also seems much smarter than my first cham.

 

[dodolah]

Try free ranging him.
and see if his behavior and color changes.
BTW, what is the ambient temp, basking temp, and humidity level in the cage?

hmmm - definate food for thought.

I really don't feel like this is a stress color for a few reasons:

1) He showed unique coloration, even as a hatchling. Also, his development showed a clear transition to his current coloration.
2) I'm not cham expert, but he's my second and I do have some idea of color transitions form my first. To me, the picture clearly appears to be his "emotionally neutral" coloration. I guess he could be stressed all the time but his behavior doesn't indicate that. Also, he changes color when he's angry or afraid. I mean, he's got a decent setup - it seems he would have turned green at least occasionally.
3) Warming him or putting him in the sun does not turn him green.

What other things could I try to test? He's in a 2x2x4 screen cage just like my other cham (who's green). Also, he's elevated well off the ground.

Now, what is interesting is that he's always been very high strung and very aggressive. When he eats, he often picks the crickets that are *farthest* away - seemingly out of sport. He's toned down a bit, but in his earlier days, he would hunt every cricket down mercilessly immediately after they were put into the cage. He also seems much smarter than my first cham.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I understand what you mean - but let me add something.

I've been keeping veileds for 15+ years. the first ones I got were wild caught, and never EVER showed anything but prime coloration. The offspring of that male was the same - from egg to adult, he was always bright in color - never showing browns or anything. Every other veiled I've had was different - many with the exact color as yours is, until about 15-18 months of age. Then they started to show bright colors most of the time.

They would be that way in the day, and bright at night. Some babies froma clutch woudl be bright all the time, others dark until large and mature.

It's been, almost invariably, that the shy, nasty, mean misanthropic and evil ones are dull, and the calm, friendly ones are bright. My big, beautiful male (who died a f3ew months ago) was the worst for his first 1.5 years - brown and ugly - he'd stay squeezed into a stick shape every time I saw him. I didn't see him eat until he was about 1.5 years old! After that, he became less shy and more aggressive - standing up to me. His color improved, and woudl be gorgeous - until he saw me.

which didn't really make me happy...

I put his cage 7' up in the air, and he kept his color even with me messing in the room. Made him confident and less shy. Mean old man was beautiful until the end, 7 or 8 years old (I can't remember).

As of now, all of his offspring (except the female) are ugly, during the day. At night, they glow brighter than their father ever did. I'm moving them into screen cages (from reptariums), I hope that makes them more comfortable. they were showing bright colors all day for a while, but they changed, and became shy.

 

[bearhart]

ooh! - free ranging... is there good info on this site about it?

So, with Bones, I would not describe him as shy. In fact, he's more likely to stand his ground than my big green boy Kermit. Also, I would not describe him as dull - his colors are actually quite rich. Its my camera that's dull. But, I get the point. I'll try to get better pictures of him.

I got into exotics w/ snakes where the whole thing of morphs and unique patterns is very big. I'm curious if this is a "thing" with chameleons? Could his dark colors simply be genetic?

Thanks!

Oh yea - ambient temps are probably a bit on the cool side but he's got access to good basking temps above 90. Humidity is probably a bit on the low side 30 to 50 say. However, I will add that these things have all varied over his life and none of them seem to have any effect. This is in direct contrast to our other male veiled where, for example, cool temperatures will always lead to a darkened coloration.