Marty needs a little help please...

[jglefler]

OK finally home.....

I read you are using linear incondescent lamps... I would still put in a basking spot lamp. use a 50w lamp. I don't know much about linear incondescent lamps..... I remember when I was a kid the church I went to had one on the podium... but that is as much as I know about them lol.

I think you should also step your UVB lamps down to the 5.0.

What kind of temps do you get at night in the house? You don't want to maintain heat really... you want heat swings. Chams need a cool down time at night. Dropping his temp into the mid (even lower) 50's is ok. I was keeping my chams outside for a bit and they were doing just fine with night temps in the 50's.

The gaping you speak of is prolly over heating... or... it can be him trying to equalize his body temp. My Melleri will move into a basking lamp and gape at first... once warm they close the mouth and sit for a bit... then more on. If you have a laser heat gun and can take readings of his body to get a good reading of his skin temp you can determine if you are providing too much or too little heat. If he only gets a body temp of 85 under his lighting... there is an issue. He needs to get a good bit warmer... like 100-110 skin temp. This is only under a basking lamp. He should be able to move away and find himself in a cooler space if he chooses.

Actually, the only difference between the basking incandescent lights I'm using and a spot lamp is my lights screw into a socket in a hood instead of a socket in a spot fixture. The hood forces the heat and light downward much as the spot would. I do, however, also have a clamp-on spot that I remove the clamp and place on the top of the cage or clamp on the side of the cage as needed. I used it today because the boy didn't come up for much of a bask so I took it to him.

The main reason I was using a 10.0 UVB is because it goes through the screen top of the cage then needs to go down another 8" minimum to hit Marty. Would a 5.0 get filtered too much in that situation?

Thanks for the info about the pm temperature. I have reard it needed to be lower but I have held it to 68 degrees at night. I will lower it to 60 degrees if you think that's OK.

 

[pssh]

60 is perfectly fine. However I would not try to move the basking spot to him if he doesn't come up. The sun doesn't shine from above AND the side does it? Nor does it shine from the side all day, so try to keep it as natural as possible.

 

[jglefler]

You can buy just the ballast to replace the one in your fixture. How long are the tubes? 36"? Look at the specs carefully on the ballast itself. You wanna be sure you are matching the lamp to the ballast.

It might be cheaper to buy a fixture like you said you might do

my signature has a DIY for changing a ballast out in a 48" fixture.

Funny you should say that. I just came back from a break as I am taking the light apart to see the ballast spec while the boy sleeps. My UVB tube is 24" long. I have been looking into changing the ballast vrs buying a whole new unit and swapping out the innards. From what I have seen one apparently connects two socket wires per side from the existing light fixture to only one wire per side on the T8 ballast??? Sounds weird but I will have a look at your info to see if what I have read so far is correct. Some have said one can get a whole new light fixture at Home Depot for less than the ballast costs. I will check into that.

The folks at Zoo Med are not doing a good job of looking out for their customers. The new T8 tube has the exact same model number and skew number as the old T12 tube. That must be causing a lot of head aches. Thanks.

 

[jglefler]

60 is perfectly fine. However I would not try to move the basking spot to him if he doesn't come up. The sun doesn't shine from above AND the side does it? Nor does it shine from the side all day, so try to keep it as natural as possible.

I put a dark blue spot (night time light bulb) on him this afternoon because he never came up to the top for basking today or yesterday. I was concerned about him being cool that long. He walked around a little bit but didn't get very close to the basking area. The house is kept at 68 degrees though, so he was probably OK.

I need to put him in his travel cage and put a blanket around it so I can get him to a vet if I can get in on Monday. He looks good but he is acting way too lethargic. Thanks for the info.

 

[pssh]

Gotta request the T8 or the T12. Most places are trying to sell off the T12 though... Perhaps he was checking out the new plants?

 

[jglefler]

... my signature has a DIY for changing a ballast out in a 48" fixture.

Hey Kevin. Your info for switching out a ballast was great. Thanks for the excellent info.

 

[summoner12]

One thing to remember is your animal has generations of instinct programmed into his head. If he doesn't bask... either he doesn't feel like it because he wants to cool down or he isn't feeling well. Setting up a basking spot, with UVB and UVA and heat in one area and let him come to that. If you notice he isn't going there once a day to warm up then maybe something isn't right. Maybe the cage is just too warm over all so he doesn't feel the need. There could be a few things.

 

[jglefler]

I don't know if we have any electricians or electronics experts in the forum that would be willing to give an opinion whether the electronic ballast I am considering would be compatible as a replacement for my existing electromagnetic ballast? If so I would greatly appreciate your input.

My existing electromagnetic ballast specifications for the single T12, 20 watt, 1 1/2" X 24" long tube is:

====================

Lightspeed - Model # T2046B-RT
10 degree centigrade (50 degrees fahrenheit ) and above
ET Plus
120 volts
60 Hertz
0.60 amps
Low power factor
Class P
Type 1
Seri Ballast
Sound rated A
Number of Lamps - 1
(I think the wattage is 72 if I figured it right)

http://translate.google.com/transla...ed=0CB0Q7gEwAw&prev=/search?q=t2046b-rt&hl=en

=================

I found this electronic ballast and hope it can be used to replace the above ballast so I can use a single T8, 18 watt, 1" X 24" long fluorescent tube in the upgraded light fixture. Hopefully this can be used without causing any compatibility problems that may shorten the T8 bulb life expectancy, etc.

Phillips Advance - Model # REL-2TTS40
Item - Compact Fluorescent Ballast
Ballast Type - Electronic
Ballast Family - SmartMate
Lamp Type - O
Start Type - Rapid
Voltage - 120
Input Watts - 71
Min. Starting Temp. - (F) 50
Base Type - 4 Pin
Number of F40BX Lamps - 2
Dimension Reference - G10

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1N125

=====================

Thanks

 

[jglefler]

Oh well. Never mind. Granger says this ballast is sold out and they weren't sure it would work anyway. I will probably need to order a whole new fixture. Thanks anyway for your consideration.

I have a vet appointment today for Marty and will report back with the outcome of that. Thanks again for all the king support.

 

[jglefler]

Marty was such a good kid at the Doctor visit today. He was SO patient with all the poking and prodding. Doctor gave me Metronidazole syrup and Beytril syrup to give him once per day for 10 days. Doc also wants me to force-feed Marty 1cc of water twice per day (with a syringe) for the next 3 weeks and then take Marty back for a follow up visit. He made the whole water force-feed thing look easier than it is. He sorta pushed downward on Marty's chin/throat area and he would open his mouth right up. When I tried it I was concerned about crushing his wind pipe and it was a struggle. The doctor had some rubber gloves on that were providing some good traction as he drew the chin downward and backward into the throat region. Perhaps that's the secret. I don't think Marty will like me much when this is all over.

He said we are doing pretty well overall but need to change a couple things. He thinks 10.0 tube UVB lights are junk and don't give much benefit due to poor penetration into the cage. He wants me to go to the PowerSun type UV mercury vapor lamp as it gives better UV penetration into the cage. He is also more of a naturalist as far as giving reptiles and crickets additives, vitamins, etc. Seems to lean more to giving crickets a healthful "salad" variety with a good mix of greens and such, but not much else. Only wants me to dust the crickets twice per week with a plain calcium with nothing else in it. He said ground up Tums makes a good dusting powder. So, we are off on a trying routine for Marty for the next few weeks but, hopefully, it will be well worth it when it is over. I just hope he won't get to where he not only doesn't beg to come to me as he used to, but cowers in fear when he sees me. Thanks again for the great advice. I will give an update later on.

BTW. Doc thinks the bent casque is due to poor care at the pet store when Marty was a baby. They didn't give him calcium or UVB lighting.

The whole light/ballast thing keeps getting weirder too. I called ZooMed to see if I could buy a T8 type ballast from them. A very nice lady told me that they are using the same electromagnetic ballast they always did. She thinks I simply got a bad bulb and was kind enough to offer a new tube to see if that solves the problem.

 

[Carlton]

Doctor gave me Metronidazole syrup and Beytril syrup to give him once per day for 10 days.

Why these meds? Metronidazole is an anti-parasitic and Baytril is an antibiotic. There may be no reason to give either without testing for a parasite overload or an active infection. Did he do a fecal test for parasites? Anti-parasitics can kick up appetite a little temporarily. If your little guy is dehydrated (orange urates can be a sign) be very very careful to keep him extra hydrated while on the Baytril as it is harsh on kidneys. I'd be a bit skeptical about the need for Baytril...what signs of active infection were there?

I have to disagree with your vet about the lighting. The ReptiSun 5.0 is a quality UVB producing light many of us use. The key is to place it so the cham can get within 18" of the bulb...put it next to the basking spot so he goes to it while warming up. They don't produce so much heat to cause burns as more intense UV powersun type bulbs can...these can generate almost too much heat, can explode if they are sprayed at all, can be sensitive to handle, and can cause burns if too close.

Over all, I think you'd done very well with your "challenged" cham! You have done a lot of good research and questioned the poor advice you got originally. He's lucky to be in your care for those 2 years. The long term effects of MBD and D3 overdosing are not completely known, but a better diet, reduced dusting, and lighting can keep him from getting worse.

With winter house heating I know that dehydration happens more often and the orange urate can be a symptom. But, carrots in the feeder diet can cause a tinge too. The overall cage humidity may be part of the problem as dehydrated chams don't eat, are less active, constipation sets in, and can cause intestinal prolapses and irritations too. When you add your plants, try hanging some plastic sheeting on back and sides of the cage to help hold in moisture and allow more surfaces for misting to evaporate off of. A room humidifier aimed right at the cage can help too but you don't have to run it 24/7. You can cycle it off and on using a multiple setting lamp timer.

 

[jglefler]

Why these meds? Metronidazole is an anti-parasitic and Baytril is an antibiotic. There may be no reason to give either without testing for a parasite overload or an active infection. Did he do a fecal test for parasites? Anti-parasitics can kick up appetite a little temporarily. If your little guy is dehydrated (orange urates can be a sign) be very very careful to keep him extra hydrated while on the Baytril as it is harsh on kidneys. I'd be a bit skeptical about the need for Baytril...what signs of active infection were there?

I have to disagree with your vet about the lighting. The ReptiSun 5.0 is a quality UVB producing light many of us use. The key is to place it so the cham can get within 18" of the bulb...put it next to the basking spot so he goes to it while warming up. They don't produce so much heat to cause burns as more intense UV powersun type bulbs can...these can generate almost too much heat, can explode if they are sprayed at all, can be sensitive to handle, and can cause burns if too close.

Over all, I think you'd done very well with your "challenged" cham! You have done a lot of good research and questioned the poor advice you got originally. He's lucky to be in your care for those 2 years. The long term effects of MBD and D3 overdosing are not completely known, but a better diet, reduced dusting, and lighting can keep him from getting worse.

With winter house heating I know that dehydration happens more often and the orange urate can be a symptom. But, carrots in the feeder diet can cause a tinge too. The overall cage humidity may be part of the problem as dehydrated chams don't eat, are less active, constipation sets in, and can cause intestinal prolapses and irritations too. When you add your plants, try hanging some plastic sheeting on back and sides of the cage to help hold in moisture and allow more surfaces for misting to evaporate off of. A room humidifier aimed right at the cage can help too but you don't have to run it 24/7. You can cycle it off and on using a multiple setting lamp timer.

Thanks for your kind words. The vet seemed to think it was what was needed. I guess that's one problem with being minimally informed about these chams. We inherited a Tokay Geko and the pet store we bought Marty from pretty much lead us to believe that chameleons were a "water and toss a few crickets in" type of pet like old Guss (our Tokay). WRONG.

One problem for Marty has been a drop-off in appetite. He hasn't eaten any crickets for 4 days now. He has never missed more than one day before. I got him some wax worms and he ate 3 yesterday and the day before. I couldn't take in a stool sample because he hasn't been defecating regularly lately. I am going to take one in the next time he unloads. I am giving him water with a syringe so he should be better hydrated than ever for the next 3 weeks. I am going to try a rubber "secretary's finger" on my thumb to hopefully get some traction as I encourage him to open his mouth as the vet instructed. I am quite sure this will improve the process and lower the chance of discomfort/injury to him. I already ordered two of the PowerSun UV bulbs before I saw this post. I told the vet I was going to continue using the tube UVB light along with the PowerSun and he said that was OK. I will only be using one PowerSun and have the other for a backup. I am going to cut some of my incandescent lights off when I use the PowerSun as a trade-off. I love this tittle rascal more than I can say. He has, however, caused us nearly as much worry as joy since we've had him. After the vet dosed him for the first round and I got him back home again he was a bit more active than he has been for 5 days or so. He hung out at the top of his cage and basked for the first time in a few days.

Here's a shot of his new diggs since I added his umbrella plant. I washed and rinsed the plant and roots several times with "Fit" fruit and vegetable wash. The water spots on the leaves are from the nursery and would not wash off as I thought they would. Perhaps they will disapate over time. My wife has one of these plants which is about 5 feet high and it doesn't have water spots. We have soft water and I suspect the nursery has hard water which has spotted the leaves. The dark stain in front of the plant pot is from a water bowl I used to have there for humidity. This whiteboard cage bottom turns nearly black if anything moist and solid stays on it longer than a few hours or so. I clean it every day but it is a weird thing that happens. If Marty drops a stool on the bottom of the cage and we are away from the house for several hours it is black the same way where the stool was right after I clean it up. After a few days of sunlight it goes away. It isn't any sort of mold or anything like that. It is kinda like the old "mood ring" effect.

 

[jglefler]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but just in case I will toss this info out. I purchased a 16 ounce MistyMate personal mister to spritz Marty with and it is wonderful. You can see it here http://mistymate.com/shop/component...d,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,26/vmcchk,1/ . I saw it mentioned here http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=46 . It is a hand pump unit with a tube and valve assembly. It emits a VERY fine mist and you can control the mist pressure with the valve on the application tube. This is nice because your hand doesn't get tired as you try to hang in there till your cham gets the message that it's time to drink. Because the mist is so fine the other advantage is very little water accumulates over a much longer spray time compared to standard spritz bottles. Another plus is the cham doesn't get the "bucket of water in the face" effect, as the spray is very gentle.

You may only want to fill it to the bottom of the internal siphon assembly (about 3" down from top of bottle) and don't over-pump it. It only needs 5 pumps or so to pump for a long time when the bottle is filled as mentioned above. When the water level gets lower you only want to pump it perhaps 10 times at the most. Be careful of other models other than the one shown in the green bag on the referenced web site above. I read that some of the other models don't hold up when preheated water is used in them. You can get good deals on eBay at times.

I eliminated the carry case using a small wrench to unscrew the tube from the bottle and then slid the carry case off. It's more practical for cham spritzing that way. You need to be VERY careful if you do this, however, as it will probably void the warranty if you remove the tube to get the case off and then reinstall the tube as I did. You also run the risk of wrecking something. Do at your own risk, as they say.

 

[jglefler]

Marty is doing better today. He is up in his basking area for the first time in 5 days or so. We gave him his meds this morning but got more on him than in him. It isn't as easy as it looks. He fights it all the way. He stuck his tongue out and started to bite down at one point. I have seen posts here about cams biting their toungs off, so I quickly stuck my finger in his jaw to prevent that form happening. Yikes! He has a powerful bite. I was surprised at how strong his bite is. Fortunately he bit my finger instead of his tongue. He is hanging at the top of the cage in his basking area and seems quite content. I am so thankful he is doing better. If your cam is ill... get him to the vet please. It's worth it. We invest a lot of time, love, and money in these little creatures. Don't let your baby die over something like a vet bill.

 

[pssh]

It might be easier if you wrap him in a towel and lay him on his side really quick then quicky put the medicine in his mouth and release him before he starts biting things. He should hiss while in the towel/being gently restrained, the towel isn't really neccisary, but can be used. That's how I gave my chameleon his crazy parasite medicine.

 

[jglefler]

It might be easier if you wrap him in a towel and lay him on his side really quick then quicky put the medicine in his mouth and release him before he starts biting things. He should hiss while in the towel/being gently restrained, the towel isn't really neccisary, but can be used. That's how I gave my chameleon his crazy parasite medicine.

Good idea. The only problem is... Marty is too sweet. He never hisses. He was so precious at the vet's office. He is gentle and docile when we torment him with med applications. He pretty much puts up with it other than trying to keep his mouth closed, pushing back with his tongue, and trying to get out of the situation. He is such a sweet little guy. I hate doing this to him. The good thing is, he is getting better already, so, we must push on with the dreaded treatments. 3 weeks is forever in chameleon years.

 

[pssh]

Good idea. The only problem is... Marty is too sweet. He never hisses. He was so precious at the vet's office. He is gentle and docile when we torment him with med applications. He pretty much puts up with it other than trying to keep his mouth closed, pushing back with his tongue, and trying to get out of the situation. He is such a sweet little guy. I hate doing this to him. The good thing is, he is getting better already, so, we must push on with the dreaded treatments. 3 weeks is forever in chameleon years.

Have you tried restraining him? Or better yet, have someone he doesn't trust as much do it. Even my sweet little girl will open her mouth if you gentaly hold her down. And she's, never, ever hissed at me. Ever.

 

[jglefler]

Have you tried restraining him? Or better yet, have someone he doesn't trust as much do it. Even my sweet little girl will open her mouth if you gentaly hold her down. And she's, never, ever hissed at me. Ever.

Actually I had him restrained as I cupped him in my hands on each side. And there is good news and bad news. The bad news is, Marty is starting to open his mouth at me now when I put my hand in the cage. It isn't a hiss yet, but a, "Hey, you are now a creep to me" sorta thing. A pre-hiss if you will. I suspect it will progress to a hiss and eventually a snap as we move forward. I hate it that the trust we have painstakingly built over 2 1/2 years is getting destroied in a few days. On a more positive note, he is doing so well he seemed like he may want to come out for a bit. He isn't begging as he used to but just a look he gives. So I brought him out and put him in a small artificial tree I bought him to play in. He loves to sit in it and peek out the back window at the flock of wild turkeys we feed in our back yard every day. I attached a photo of him basking and later admiring his turkeys from his tree. He is starting to shed a bit.

I like your idea of restraining him in a hand towel. I will try that.

 

[hallenhe]

You'd mentioned he had cut back on the crickets - if he's eating again with some regularity, I give my guy his meds while he feeds. Give him a couple crickets, then slip the syringe in after he's swallowed but while he's still doing the open-and-close-the-mouth routine. He hates the syringe, but he shows this by biting it - and then I can squirt the meds in. I don't do it too fast, to minimize choking risk. He then tilts his head way back to swallow. After a couple minutes, I usually give him another cricket or treat, to "cleanse his palate", and to try to keep him from associating the crickets with medicine and syringes.

 

[jglefler]

You'd mentioned he had cut back on the crickets - if he's eating again with some regularity, I give my guy his meds while he feeds. Give him a couple crickets, then slip the syringe in after he's swallowed but while he's still doing the open-and-close-the-mouth routine. He hates the syringe, but he shows this by biting it - and then I can squirt the meds in. I don't do it too fast, to minimize choking risk. He then tilts his head way back to swallow. After a couple minutes, I usually give him another cricket or treat, to "cleanse his palate", and to try to keep him from associating the crickets with medicine and syringes.

Thanks for all the good ideas. He isn't eating crickets yet. He did eat a wax worm.