Mbd? Chameleon fell and soft grip.

[Saraeelove]

Hi! My chameleon fell 2 times today and I'm concerned he has mbd. I rarely hold him but today I noticed that his grip is alot softer than before.
****Does he have mbd??? ***

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
*Panther chameleon, not sure of the age maybe about 2 years old. Male. I've had him for almost 1 year.

Handling
*rarely. I spot clean and leave him inside the cage. I occasionally give him worms on my hand. But he has a feeder cup.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders

*superworms, dubias, crickets, rare occasions horn worms
(he usually more superworms than anything else and crickets come in 2nd. For some reason he gives the superworms more attention and eats them)
---- past month, he has been eating less and less and sometimes only eats like 4or 5 insects a day or every other day.
*I pour a few crickets and superworms on his feeder cup. Usually around 3pm after work.
*gut load insects with lettuce, carrots, sometimes cucumbers or celery.


Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?


Repticalcium without d3 - everyday
Repticalcium with d3 - once every 2 weeks
Reptivite- once every 2 weeks

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

MMonsoon - every 2-3 hrs for few seconds. Just enough to get the leaves wet. 7am-7pm

I also spray water with the spray bottle in the morning and around 3pm.so 2x-3x a day.
He licks the wet leaves everyday.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

NO he hasn't.
Urates - white, not hydrated
Feces- full. sometimes too wet


History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

NNOT that I know of

Location - Where are you geographically located
Los Angeles, CAlifornia.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
My current concerns are that he might have mbd because his grip is kinda soft now and he fell 2 times today. He still shoots his tongue far for food and walks around slowly around his cage
Oh and he seems to always be shedding
I believe this is the reason why he might have mbd:

I currently have him in large reptibreeze 18x18x36
With 20in retptisun fixture - 18inch t5ho 10.0 uvb light.

I've noticed his health started to change when i removed the pothos and put a big umbrella tree in his enclose about 2 months ago. The leaves are dense and less uvb penetration.
I've noticed that his enclosure looks darker and that the light fixture might be too small so now it's weaker with the thicker leaves not allowing uvb to go through.

The tree was also like 3 inches away from the top screen instead of the about 10inches space from plant to uvb light.

Tomorrow I'm upgrading his enclosure by putting 2 18x18x36 reptibreeze enclosures side by side so it can make a 36x18x36 enclosure. And will be adding 48 inch arcadia 12% t5ho uvb lights.

What else should I do? I'm concerned that he is going to get worse.I'm so mad at myself and should have followed my gut instinct. will he get a firm grip again with all of this.

******DOES HE HAVE MBD??? ****

 

[Zevil]

Cut down the amount of superworms, it should be the least amount compared to crickets, dubia and hornworms.
He should only be eating once every other day at his age.
Feed in the morning, not in the afternoon.
You mist every few hours including night time? (need clarification)
You should mist at least a few minutes at a time, not a few seconds.

Need a full picture of the entire enclosure.

 

[Saraeelove]

Cut down the amount of superworms, it should be the least amount compared to crickets, dubia and hornworms.
He should only be eating once every other day at his age.
Feed in the morning, not in the afternoon.
You mist every few hours including night time? (need clarification)
You should mist at least a few minutes at a time, not a few seconds.

Need a full picture of the entire enclosure.

I recently put an extra uvb light today. T8 zilla slimline dessert 50 uvb. Next to my original 22inch ReptiSun t5ho light fixture (with 18inch 10.0 uvb light).. Just to give him extra uvb for today until I get the Arcadia light tomorrow.

First picture. I cut some leaves from the tree and moved the. To the side.... Second picture I added a branch stick so he can get closer to the uvb lights. He was sitting on that branch right under the uvb mostly all day. I think he enjoyed the extra uvb

Do you think he has mbd?

 

[Zevil]

You need more plants. What are you using for his basking light? To check for MBD(I learnt from my vet), feel his lips/jaw area and if it feels rubbery.

 

[Saraeelove]

You need more plants. What are you using for his basking light? To check for MBD(I learnt from my vet), feel his lips/jaw area and if it feels rubbery.

Thank you. I will post his new enclosure set up tomorrow. And thank you thank you.
Philips indoor Br30 flood light

 

[Saraeelove]

Thank you. I will post his new enclosure set up tomorrow. And thank you thank you.
Philips indoor Br30 flood light

This is him sleeping. Do his back legs look ok? It looks like his ankles are thick.

 

[Zevil]

Did you feel his upper and lower lips?

 

[Zevil]

I suggest that you bring him to a vet if you are concerned.

 

[janjan20]

I would also highly recommend getting a fecal test done just to rule out parasites.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

His legs look thick because he is obese. You need to cut him back to 5-6 feeders every other day.

Your gutload is completely inadequate, but cricket crack or Bug Burger.

MBD can set in in two months time but given that you are running a 10.0 with the correct supplement schedule I just can’t see it getting this bad this fast.

I do see some bowing in his right rear leg which I wouldn’t expect given your husbandry. Are you sure all the husbandry you listed above is accurate? Sometimes there is a gap between what people think they are doing and what they are actually doing.

 

[jamest0o0]

You need more plants. What are you using for his basking light? To check for MBD(I learnt from my vet), feel his lips/jaw area and if it feels rubbery.

I disagree, no need for more plants.

OP, along with the other advice, take him to the vet...

 

[Rlc1994]

I agree with the above posts sounds like a vet visit would be a good idea. Also I would take out the t8 fixture and just keep the 22 inch t5Ho. That one fixture should be plenty enough. Also some natural sun every now is very beneficial. Sounds like your gutloading needs a lot of improvement. Here are some of the care images on this site to refer too.

 

[Saraeelove]

His legs look thick because he is obese. You need to cut him back to 5-6 feeders every other day.

Your gutload is completely inadequate, but cricket crack or Bug Burger.

MBD can set in in two months time but given that you are running a 10.0 with the correct supplement schedule I just can’t see it getting this bad this fast.

I do see some bowing in his right rear leg which I wouldn’t expect given your husbandry. Are you sure all the husbandry you listed above is accurate? Sometimes there is a gap between what people think they are doing and what they are actually doing.

Ok thank you. Yes it's correct. I was thinking he might have mbd because He usually eats superworms, and that umbrella light used to have leaves touching the top fence or 3 inches close to touching the fence. I am assuming he wasn't nt getting proper uvb.

And I should add that there was some time that I didn't give him reptivite for about 2 - 3months like and started again like a month ago

His enclosure is next to a window and i open it sometimes to let the sunlight in. So I feel that I'm confused about giving him reptivite because I sometimes leave the window open and i don't know if that's enough vitamin d that he can be getting.

 

[Saraeelove]

Did you feel his upper and lower lips?

His top lips feel hard and his bottoms lips feel soft

 

[Zevil]

His top lips feel hard and his bottoms lips feel soft

Do they feel soft like rubber?

 

[Saraeelove]

Do they feel soft like rubber?

Closed lips- feels hard like bone
He Open his mouth a little because he got annoyed and felt his lips again
Top lips- hard. Feels like hard bone
Bottom lips - a little soft but doesn't feel like rubber.

 

[Saraeelove]

Now I'm wondering if he has gout.
https://mypetchameleon.com/diseases/gout-in-chameleons/

 

[Brodybreaux25]

And I should add that there was some time that I didn't give him reptivite for about 2 - 3months like and started again like a month ago

That was kind of an important detail!

 

[Saraeelove]

That was kind of an important detail!

OK im glad this detail is important. What do you guys think it is?and what should i do.

I'm calling the vet on Monday once they open (closed on weekends) found a good one in the area. And asking for a fecal test as well.

 

[Beman]

I think you need to get your basics in order... and I mean no disrespect... But the basics are the building blocks of good husbandry.

They need a multivitamin 2 times a month and a calcium with d3 two times a month. Pick a day of the week and rotate it every week. Then the calcium without D3 at every other feeding. By skipping the supplements or not doing it correctly you are harming the cham creating vitamin deficiency and D3 issues leading to MBD.

Your gutload is extremely lacking as well. We don't gutload to feed the insects we gutload to pass the nutrients on to the cham. Superworms are very addictive to chams which is why they should only make up 20% of their diet.

He should be on an every other day feeding schedule and getting the equivalent of 6-7 large feeders. This way he stays a healthy weight. And he should be fed in the morning.

Also you can overdo UVB> You need 1 t5HO fixture. If it is a single bulb fixture then you need a 5.0 or 6% bulb. The only way you jump up to a higher bulb strength is if you are doing a quad fixture that holds 4 bulbs.
With your uvb you want your basking level to be 7-8 inches below. And you have to be on top of replacing your bulbs. With Zoomed you want to replace every 8 months and arcadia every year.