Mbd???

mylittlewholock

mylittlewholock

New Member
Ok so my Cham I think may have mbd
I really don't know and I'm really worried
This is my first Cham so I don't know if Sylvester has it or how to take care of it
Please help!!!
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Chameleon- veiled, male, age unknown, been in my care for about 4 months
Handling- about 30 minutes/ an hour a day total
Feeding- 15 or 10 small gut loaded crickets a day, 10 small meal worms a day, have special cricket food and water gel, calcium/vitamin supplement
Watering- mist cage about 5 times a day, couple of sprits (on the walls and leaves), syringe filled with filtered water given to him in drops almost every hour. I do see him drink out of the syringe in my hand each day.
Fecal description- brown in his cage, mint green when I pick him up, a few blue dots, orange spots, not been tested for parasites
History- he has been eating and drinking well, I've noticed that he has been like this for a while, I've been observing him and he is eating and climbing well.
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Cage- glass cage with screen roof and insulated door
Lighting- do not know the type, UVB light during the day, red night heat lamp and a small towel over half of the cage for the night time
Temperature- day time is usually around 80F, do not know night time, I have a thermometer inside the cage at the bottom
Humidity- kept around 75, spraying the cage with clean water, i have a hydrometer kept at the bottom of the cage.
Placement- on the sink of my bathroom. Bathroom is attached to my room and blocked off with a door.
Location- I am usually in my room with the bathroom door open where I can see my Cham.
Current problem- MBD
 

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As the previous answer said, he does have MBD. It is important to give the correct supplements in the correct amount coupled with providing adequate UVB exposure with your lighting. It can be confusing and overwhelming. Here is a link to the How to ask for Help form https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/. Fill this out in as much detail as you can and others can then specifically address where the problems are. It can be stopped but not reversed so don't despair.
 
Please read the sticky at the top of the Health Clinic by Ferritinmyshoes on what MBD is and looks like and also read each story as a few of them tell what they did to help stop/slow down these chams disease! Also as stated by other member, please fill out the ask for help.
 
shmeenakoz said:
Please read the sticky at the top of the Health Clinic by Ferritinmyshoes on what MBD is and looks like and also read each story as a few of them tell what they did to help stop/slow down these chams disease! Also as stated by other member, please fill out the ask for help.
Click to expand...

Ok thank you. I have just filled out the ask for help if you would like to see that. :)
 
Are you sure you have a UVB light? What does the light say on it??? Your chameleon has MBD quite severe unfortunately.
 
carol5208 said:
Are you sure you have a UVB light? What does the light say on it??? Your chameleon has MBD quite severe unfortunately.
Click to expand...
I would be sure it is :/ My dad said when he bought it, it said UVB on the box. I'm very sad to here that |( do you know if it is causing him pain?
I guess there is not really a way to know, anyway please pray for him I guess
 
I would get him to the vet asap! I would also get rid of that red light at night, they need total darkness to get proper sleep (12 hrs). He will need a lot of extra care and this recovery will take awhile! So be prepared. Also please refer to the care sheets on this forum on veiled chams for proper supplementation. Im pretty sure they are similar to panthers (what I have) in that dept., so they need calcium without d3 every feeding and calcium with d3 and multivit 2x a month. Please do not delay his care, as his condition looks pretty bad. It is good to hear he is eating and drinking though. Good luck
 
Yes a vet is needed asap. He is in pretty bad shape and will most likely require special care for the rest of his life. You need a repti-sun 5.0 UVB tube style bulb for him, but right now I would just worry about getting him to a vet.
 
mylittlewholock said:
I would be sure it is :/ My dad said when he bought it, it said UVB on the box. I'm very sad to here that |( do you know if it is causing him pain?
I guess there is not really a way to know, anyway please pray for him I guess
Click to expand...

There should be a way to figure out what type of light you have. Does the hood have a brand name on it? If so you could look it up on the internet. If you cannot find out the type of light it is for the sake of your chameleon you need to get new lights. The quickest and least costly would be to get a Reptisun 5.0 UVB light and a deep dome shaped holder. This can be found on Amazon for less that $50. A step up would be a linear UVB light with a hood and would probably cost about the same or a little more. If you want the absolute best then contact Todd from Light your Reptiles to help you purchase the appropriate lighting system. They are a forum sponsor and the sponsor link at the top of the forum page will get you there but be prepared to shell out a fair amount of $$. If the lights reflecting off the white surface of your pictures are the lights for your chameleon, I am not certain they are UVB lights, they look like LED lights and I don't think there are LEDs on the market that also provide UVB. However I could be wrong about this. Unless you provide the proper UVB lighting no amount of calcium is going to help your chameleon. He needs the UVB light to make the D3 that will metabolize the calcium properly into his bones.
You need to stop feeding mealworms as a daily staple. They are like McDonalds fries, they taste good but have little nutritional value. You also need to change your insect gutloading. Those commercial diets/cubes etc. are crap. Go to Sandrachameleon's blog about gutloading to see how to do it properly. The water gel crystals are OK but many keepers do not provide free water but use enough fresh fruits and veggies to adequately hydrate the bug. Another thing you can do is offer more variety in your feeders. Phoenix worms, silkworms, hornworms and butterworms are fairly high in calcium, low in fat and high in moisture. Those would be especially good for a cham with MBD. The vet should be able to provide you with a more intense calcium therapy, such as liquid calcium glubionate which you give by mouth. You are not very specific in your calcium/vitamin supplement schedule. It should be: plain calcium every day you feed something other that the above mentioned worms (although right now it probably would not hurt to dust them as well). It would be for insects like crickets and roaches. Calcium with D3 should be given twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month. But again without proper lighting it is all for naught.
I am surprised to hear that he is climbing about without difficulty as his MBD looks pretty advanced. As far as pain, it could be quite painful as they can have fractured bones because of the demineralization. So he does need prompt and aggressive treatment for this problem. It certainly is not a lost cause as of yet but like the other poster said he will need a lot of attention and it may be a lifelong need. I lost my first chameleon to improper husbandry, but at the time I thought I was taking proper care of him. Unfortunately for him I learned to late that I was doing things all wrong! He wasn't eating or moving about in a normal fashion but if your guy still is that is great news and hopefully he will respond well. As previously mentioned ferret's MBD info is very helpful and enlightening. She has a story about a gecko that was near death with MBD but responded well to treatment and is a happy little lizard now. So I encourage you to read and research and continue to be a presence on the forum; take the corrective steps to help your guy recover, and thrive. I hope this helps you and please don't hesitate to ask more questions or for clarification if you need it. Good Luck!
 
Check if the bulb was in the light fixture when you bought it and had plastic over the bulb. The uvb does not go pass plastic. The light does but not the uvb your cham needs. this might explain some of his problem.
 
ridgebax1 said:
There should be a way to figure out what type of light you have. Does the hood have a brand name on it? If so you could look it up on the internet. If you cannot find out the type of light it is for the sake of your chameleon you need to get new lights. The quickest and least costly would be to get a Reptisun 5.0 UVB light and a deep dome shaped holder. This can be found on Amazon for less that $50. A step up would be a linear UVB light with a hood and would probably cost about the same or a little more. If you want the absolute best then contact Todd from Light your Reptiles to help you purchase the appropriate lighting system. They are a forum sponsor and the sponsor link at the top of the forum page will get you there but be prepared to shell out a fair amount of $$. If the lights reflecting off the white surface of your pictures are the lights for your chameleon, I am not certain they are UVB lights, they look like LED lights and I don't think there are LEDs on the market that also provide UVB. However I could be wrong about this. Unless you provide the proper UVB lighting no amount of calcium is going to help your chameleon. He needs the UVB light to make the D3 that will metabolize the calcium properly into his bones.
You need to stop feeding mealworms as a daily staple. They are like McDonalds fries, they taste good but have little nutritional value. You also need to change your insect gutloading. Those commercial diets/cubes etc. are crap. Go to Sandrachameleon's blog about gutloading to see how to do it properly. The water gel crystals are OK but many keepers do not provide free water but use enough fresh fruits and veggies to adequately hydrate the bug. Another thing you can do is offer more variety in your feeders. Phoenix worms, silkworms, hornworms and butterworms are fairly high in calcium, low in fat and high in moisture. Those would be especially good for a cham with MBD. The vet should be able to provide you with a more intense calcium therapy, such as liquid calcium glubionate which you give by mouth. You are not very specific in your calcium/vitamin supplement schedule. It should be: plain calcium every day you feed something other that the above mentioned worms (although right now it probably would not hurt to dust them as well). It would be for insects like crickets and roaches. Calcium with D3 should be given twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month. But again without proper lighting it is all for naught.
I am surprised to hear that he is climbing about without difficulty as his MBD looks pretty advanced. As far as pain, it could be quite painful as they can have fractured bones because of the demineralization. So he does need prompt and aggressive treatment for this problem. It certainly is not a lost cause as of yet but like the other poster said he will need a lot of attention and it may be a lifelong need. I lost my first chameleon to improper husbandry, but at the time I thought I was taking proper care of him. Unfortunately for him I learned to late that I was doing things all wrong! He wasn't eating or moving about in a normal fashion but if your guy still is that is great news and hopefully he will respond well. As previously mentioned ferret's MBD info is very helpful and enlightening. She has a story about a gecko that was near death with MBD but responded well to treatment and is a happy little lizard now. So I encourage you to read and research and continue to be a presence on the forum; take the corrective steps to help your guy recover, and thrive. I hope this helps you and please don't hesitate to ask more questions or for clarification if you need it. Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all your help. I am still looking to see if the lights I have are UVB, my dad and I are going to go to a petsmart tomorrow and find a good UVB. I believe you mentioned Reptisun as a good (brand?). In the meantime I've decided to take my cham outside to bask in the sunlight when it is good warm weather for vitamin D and stuff :/.
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I admit it is my fault for not putting the calcium supplement on his crickets too often, and I've gotten the consequence. :( Everyone makes mistakes, but laziness is not tolerated. I am not saying this will happen, but most likely if it is so bad he will have to be put down. I would be happy to have that option instead of having him live with pain for maybe the rest of his life. (I scheduled an appointment with a reptile doctor at the banfield hospital, but he canceled on me.)
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I was looking back at the pictures that I took when I first got him and he had his rounded arms too. So he had it when he was at the pet store but it got worse without me knowing....
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Thank you for all you help. As a beginner reptile owner, I'm so glad I found this website with all kinds of experienced, kind people willing to help.
(Also, I have been reading over ferretinmyshoes' thread)
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Just another quick question: Sylvester, the cham, is falling out of his braches. I just cleaned his cage today and replaced the floor with a couple of paper towels and a soft towel on top to break his fall. Is there anything else you would recommend for him? Thx.
 
I applaud your honesty and willingness to learn and make things better. We all make mistakes, but correcting them is what is important. Yes the reptisun 5.0 bulb is what most members have. You will need the linear tube bulb which runs about $30 at petsmart and a fixture to put it in, which is about $20.

Getting him outside for natural light is also a good idea.

Falling out of his branches is a sign of MBD. His condition appears to be advanced and I would definitely get him in to see a vet.
 
Zen said:
u keep ur cham next to ur sink? dam thats dirtty change that location
Click to expand...
I don't know about you, but my sink is clean. In my kitchen and my bathroom. This is irrelevant to the conversation.

If Sylvester is falling a lot you could put some soft bath towels or the like on the floor of his cage. I made Pete a hospital cage. I lined a plastic bin with soft towels. Put a couple branches in so he could perch on them then used some fake vines and leaves hanging down from the lid so he would feel hidden. I also used a little dripper to drip water onto the vines, and directly under that I had a little dish with a sponge to absorb the water. I also had his heat lamp hanging above the cage. I would take him out several times a day so he could climb on a ladder I made out of tree branches for exercise. Unfortunately he only lived for a few more weeks. I really felt bad when I learned what I did wrong even though at the time I thought I was doing things correctly. But don't give up, even if the worst happens. Consider as one other poster said a tough lesson and move on with better knowledge for next time. We do all make mistakes and nothing you have done was done with malicious intent and that is what makes the difference.
 
Zen said:
u keep ur cham next to ur sink? dam thats dirtty change that location
Click to expand...

I have 10 of my baby quads living in a bathroom, set up over the tub. They are less than 3ft from a toilet and about 5ft from a sink. They are not in a dirty location.

You seem to have made a negative comment without a basis for the comment.
 
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