Mbd

Kntonoff

Kntonoff

Member
Hi everyone,

I try not to ask much, but yesterday when I came home from school my chameleon couldn't walk. We took her to the vet immediately, they gave her an x-ray, and diagnosed her with Metabolic Bone Disease, and also parasites. I really tried my hardest to keep her healthy, and I obviously failed. The vet said it would be months upon months of hard work and commitment, for her to heal. I would like to ask you guys to please pray for my little baby, while she goes through this awful time:( Thank you.



-Kaylee-
 

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Do you know why she got MBD? Have you fixed that problem? Get her as much natural sun light as possible too. My thoughts are with you
 
I am sorry to hear about your little girl. Don't give up on her and work hard and she will improve allot but her bones will always look crooked. Did the vet give you liquid calcium for her? Do you live in an area with nice warm weather so she can get some outside time. You will want to look at your general care for her and change the things that caused her to get the MBD so that she can recovery properly.

I'm linking several blogs for you about general care for veileds and females. I'm also giving you a blog about MBD. Good luck with her and keep us posted.

This is how I keep my veileds and have had great success with this method:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
How to keep a female veiled:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
 
Have you had her since March when you joined the forums? Can you fill out the ask for help form in the health clinic so we can see how you set up is and what caused her to get MBD? Can we see a pic of your set up?
 
Hi Kaylee, sorry your cham has MBD and parasites but it's very good that you got her to your vet and he diagnosed the 2 problems.
I'll be happy to say some prayers for your cham.

The links that Jannb provided are very good and the last link she posted about MBD is excellent, since it was written by a veterinarian who also keeps chams.

As others have mentioned, it's very important to determine exactly why she developed MBD and to change anything that needs to be different so that she can make the best recovery possible.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here has some made mistakes with their chams that they felt bad about.

Much of the time people have done things exactly the way the petstore people told them to--only to later end up with a sick cham.

These forums are a great place to get good information, so we learn what to do to help our chams.

The most important thing now, is to find out if you should be doing anything differently, make any changes your cham needs and to do your best to get her back to good health.

If you copy and paste the questions from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and then add all of your answers, we can help you to figure out what can be done differently to help your cham girl heal.

No one here is perfect and so no one should judge you for having made mistakes.
You certainly didn't try to give her MBD or parasites.
 
Lazy Boy said:
Do you know why she got MBD? Have you fixed that problem? Get her as much natural sun light as possible too. My thoughts are with you
Click to expand...

Thank You, the doctor said that she wasn't absorbing enough calcium. I dusted her food in calcium every feeding, but I guess I didn't dust them enough. I try to get her into direct sunlight everyday, but sometimes I get caught up in school, and homework, but now I am being extra cautious, and making sure she gets sunlight everyday. :)
 
jannb said:
I am sorry to hear about your little girl. Don't give up on her and work hard and she will improve allot but her bones will always look crooked. Did the vet give you liquid calcium for her? Do you live in an area with nice warm weather so she can get some outside time. You will want to look at your general care for her and change the things that caused her to get the MBD so that she can recovery properly.

I'm linking several blogs for you about general care for veileds and females. I'm also giving you a blog about MBD. Good luck with her and keep us posted.

This is how I keep my veileds and have had great success with this method:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
How to keep a female veiled:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Click to expand...

The vet did give her the liquid calcium, and I have to give it to her every 12 hours, but that shouldn't be a problem. Right now where I live, since it is approaching Fall/Winter it is getting colder, but I will try to at least get some sunlight to her through my window. Thank you for the websites, I will definitely read through them! :)
 
carol5208 said:
Have you had her since March when you joined the forums? Can you fill out the ask for help form in the health clinic so we can see how you set up is and what caused her to get MBD? Can we see a pic of your set up?
Click to expand...

I have had her since February 28th. Um, I don't know how to fill out the form, but I will try. This is her cage set up, she was glaring at me in this picture because I had to turn her light back on, so I could get a picture of her setup lol. She only has a few plants in there right now, and her cage is tipped over on the side because the vet said to try and keep everything at a low height so she can't climb to high, in case of her falling, and breaking bones, but usually her cage is filled with branches and leaves.
 

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Lovereps said:
Hi Kaylee, sorry your cham has MBD and parasites but it's very good that you got her to your vet and he diagnosed the 2 problems.
I'll be happy to say some prayers for your cham.

The links that Jannb provided are very good and the last link she posted about MBD is excellent, since it was written by a veterinarian who also keeps chams.

As others have mentioned, it's very important to determine exactly why she developed MBD and to change anything that needs to be different so that she can make the best recovery possible.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here has some made mistakes with their chams that they felt bad about.

Much of the time people have done things exactly the way the petstore people told them to--only to later end up with a sick cham.

These forums are a great place to get good information, so we learn what to do to help our chams.

The most important thing now, is to find out if you should be doing anything differently, make any changes your cham needs and to do your best to get her back to good health.

If you copy and paste the questions from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and then add all of your answers, we can help you to figure out what can be done differently to help your cham girl heal.
You certainly didn't try to give her MBD or parasites.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much! That makes me feel a lot better:) I don't think I was dusting her mealworms enough. The vet said she had a calcium deficiency, and that it would be at least one month before they would see improvement. They also said I should be expecting broken bones, which I am no looking forward to :(. Thank you though, for the prayers, I am hoping to see some improvement, on her next vet visit! Thank you!
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it doesn't look like you have any UVB. I see from the reflection on the glass the all the color from the bulbs look the same (could be just the living room light). UVB is very important to chams and MBD is a sign that something is very wrong in either calcium or UVB - they need both. If you have UVB bulbs, how old are they? Give her as much natural sunlight as possible and change the bulbs. The chameleon can make a recovery but I don't think it will be the same again. Nevertheless, it can be saved at this point. Keep us updated.
 
RyU said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it doesn't look like you have any UVB. I see from the reflection on the glass the all the color from the bulbs look the same. UVB is very important to chams and MBD is a sign that something is very wrong in either calcium or UVB - they need both. If you have UVB bulbs, how old are they? Give her as much natural sunlight as possible and change the bulbs. The chameleon can make a recovery but I don't think it will be the same again. Nevertheless, it can be saved at this point. Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

She has a UVB lamp, its just not very noticeable. The vet told me to get her a "5.0 linear florescent bulb" and I am going to but right now, we are still are paying the vet bill and when we have enough money, we are going to get her the linear UVB bulb, but for right now the UVB lamp is all I have. It is only 3 months old, and the vet told me to change it at the 6 month mark. The vet told me that it the bulb was fine for now. But it probably doesn't look like I have any UVB right now because I had already had it off for almost an hour, when I took the picture, and then had to turn it back on, so the color doesn't really show. Thank you!:)
 
Kntonoff said:
Um, I don't know how to fill out the form, but I will try.
Click to expand...

If you copy and paste the questions from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and then add all of your answers, we can help you to figure out what can be done differently to help your cham girl heal.

These are the questions to copy and paste or just list all of the answers, if you don't know how to copy and paste the questions.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?



Kntonoff said:
Thank you very much! That makes me feel a lot better:) I don't think I was dusting her mealworms enough. The vet said she had a calcium deficiency, and that it would be at least one month before they would see improvement. They also said I should be expecting broken bones, which I am no looking forward to :(. Thank you though, for the prayers, I am hoping to see some improvement, on her next vet visit! Thank you!
Click to expand...

You're welcome. :)
We can't change things that have been done but we can do things differently from now on.
Your girl definitely has MBD--that's why her legs are curvy and she can't walk.
This was written by a veterinarian and it can help you to understand MBD better https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/


She should be eating more crickets than mealworms---and the crickets (and mealworms) should always be dusted with calcium without D3.
2x each month dust with calcium with D3 and 2 times each month dust with a multivitamin without D3
2 excellent feeders that don't need calcium dust because they have a good amount of calcium in them are silkworms and Phoenixworms--but these all should only be a part of a varied diet.


I would be afraid that she might drown in a dish of water, since she is having trouble walking.

Are you misting her with a spray bottle mister to help her to drink enough?
 
Lovereps said:
If you copy and paste the questions from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and then add all of your answers, we can help you to figure out what can be done differently to help your cham girl heal.

These are the questions to copy and paste or just list all of the answers, if you don't know how to copy and paste the questions.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?





You're welcome. :)
We can't change things that have been done but we can do things differently from now on.
Your girl definitely has MBD--that's why her legs are curvy and she can't walk.
This was written by a veterinarian and it can help you to understand MBD better https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/


She should be eating more crickets than mealworms---and the crickets (and mealworms) should always be dusted with calcium without D3.
2x each month dust with calcium with D3 and 2 times each month dust with a multivitamin without D3
2 excellent feeders that don't need calcium dust because they have a good amount of calcium in them are silkworms and Phoenixworms--but these all should only be a part of a varied diet.


I would be afraid that she might drown in a dish of water, since she is having trouble walking.

Are you misting her with a spray bottle mister to help her to drink enough?
Click to expand...

Okay, thank you, I will fill of the form. I don't give her crickets just yet, because the last time I had them in there, she didn't even eat one, and she is used to the mealworms. However, I am going to try to get into the habit of her eating crickets, when she heals a little bit from the MBD, but I am definitely not going to try right now, because the vet said to be very careful about what she eats, because she would break her jaw, and I don't want to try to put crickets down now, while she is on her floor pretty much all day, also I don't want to stress her out. So once she gets healed a little bit, and can climb, I will give her crickets. The dish you see in her cage is what her excess water from her drip tank drips into, I empty it everyday, so don't worry :) And, since she can't climb, I am giving her water out of a syringe, but before all of this she was drinking from her drip tank. I have a fogging machine, that gives her tank humidity. Thank you!
 
Lovereps said:
She would probably like Phoenixworms also sold as Calciworms. They are very soft and very high in calcium, so they are an excellent food for chams with MBD.
You can buy them here http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/the-Phoenix-Worm-Sizes--Place-Order-Here/Categories she would be able to eat the large size ones which are still very small compared to other feeder insects.
Click to expand...

Okay, thank you so much for all of your help! I am worried about her eating right now, because I tried to feed her (and since she cant get around on her own, I get her out, and put her in a position where she can get food from her dish) however, when I was getting her to eat, she was eating and after a minute she opened he mouth very wide, so I looked in, and she was choking on her worm, thankfully, my Dad helped me pull it out, and Elpha (the name of my cham) was fine. So I am just worried right now, so if I don't end up just feeding her Carnivore Care mix, I will definitely take those into consideration. Thank you so much!
 
She may have choked in part because all of the body's muscles depend on calcium to work properly.

That's why the body "steals" calcium from the bones when it isn't receiving enough or absorbing enough.
Good thing your dad was there to help her.
The Phoenixworms are much softer than mealworms and they wiggle, which tempt chams into eating them.

I wish I could raise my own Phoenixworms instead of having to buy them. They are a feeder that my chams like and I like their high calcium content.

If you always keep a fresh piece of carrot or potato in the cage, feeders which didn't get eaten will have food to eat, instead of biting your cham.

One of the great resources on this forum is the chameleon caresheets.
Here is the one for Veiled chams https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/ which lists proper temperatures, which supplements and foods to give and a lot more.
 
Kntonoff...you said you were going to provide some light through the windows...your chameleon won't get any UVB if the light passes through glass. Has the UVB light on the cage been over glass or screen?

In addition to any providing extra calcium to correct the imbalance and following the normal dusting schedule its important to feed / gutload the insects properly so the chameleon will have nutritious food.

Also...If she's having trouble with eating you can feed her pureed baby food for a while....sweet potato, squash, etc.
 
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