Meller help w/pictures

[ataraxia]

hi, i have a male that has not had any food intake since i brought him home "few month ago". i have tried dubai roaches, crickets, super worms, meal worms and pinkie mice. he is not interested in anything! yesterday i came home to give him his shower and during the shower and he fell "luckily to the feeding dish in the cage". which is only about a foot drop. the poor guy is pretty skinny at this point. last resort i have started force feedings. i dont know if i am doing this right so i need some guidance. i took about 12 mealworms, one dubai and basically took the insides out. i added just a few drops water to make it easier to get into the syringe. all together it made up about 3 ml. anything i should add to the mix? i have also noticed some spots on him. they are a off color and are semi-hard to the touch. i will post the pictures in a few hours when i get home from work.

 

[ataraxia]

heres some pics of the spots

[img=http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2347/spotn.th.jpg]

[img=http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8867/spot2.th.jpg]

 

[AJA]

No reptile vet near you?

This is my OPINION of what MAY be going on. You say "a few months" I interpet this is that you have a WC and while in quarantine (hot and humid conditions) it may have come down with pseudomonsis. The spot on the back could be some sort of fungy mungy and is cosmetic. I am also going to assume that you haven't treated it for parasites. The stress of captivity, quarantine and you (no offense it isn't personal) with no eating is a train wreck waiting to happen.

IMO this guy needs to see a vet right away and get a fecal on him/her and a culture.

 

[InGoodHands]

he has had nothing in a few months?

 

[Miss Lily]

Looks like he needs a vet. I am by no means an expert, but his mouth looks odd to me. Maybe mouthrot? Not sure. A vet is probably your best bet.

 

[draetish]

Go to the first post on this Health Forum "Veterinarian Resources" go down the page and click on "Herp Vet Connection" scroll down to the bottom and find Indiana and see which vet is closest to you and call them today. Please don't let another day go by.

 

[chams1]

I don't know where in Indiana you are located, but I do know that there are not a whole lot of "qualified" vets there to deal with any chameleon. If you are somewhat close to the Chicago area, my reptile vet is one of the only 2 here that I would consider qualified to deal with chams (and the other is close by). I agree with the rest of the responses that you need to get him to the vet asap, especially since he has not had anything to eat. His eye in the picture looks pretty sunken. If you are forcefeeding him, take some large crickets (minus the legs) and grind them up with a little calcium and some pedialite (for an added boost of energy) in a blender. This will make it easier to get it in with a syringe. But, most importantly, get him to a vet. PM me if you need the name of my vet (and he does take emergencies and he will be at our local show in Wheaton, IL on Saturday) or if you need me to help you. I will also be at the Wheaton show on Saturday.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Possible Fungus infection

I would recommend you isolate your Meller's in an area totally separate from all other reptiles.

At least one of your photos looks like it may suggest this fungal infection, as described on the "MelleriDiscovery.com" site:

"Fungal Infections
There is a deadly fungal infection that is seen on WC imports of various species of reptiles. No one has done lab tests to prove if the condition called "yellow fungus" in bearded dragons, or CANV in other reptiles, is the same as this condition. It is suspected to be CANV because both types of its lesions meet the CANV description. It presents symptoms the same way in each chameleon species. A WC may be asymptomatic while infected, and only importation stress over months creates the lowered immunity needed for the disease to take hold. The infected chameleon in its early stage cannot hold hydration, no matter how well acclimated it was, no matter what veterinary support. The parietal areas of the head sink. The lateral portions of the body, particularly the flanks, break out with fine, raised pale pink, yellow, or peach-colored "warts". These fleshy growths can be peeled back to reveal bleeding tissue beneath. This spreads overnight to warts on the limbs, face, turrets, crests, etc. Some chameleons only get warts restricted to one area, such as the turrets, for the duration of their illness. Other growths, appearing as fluid-filled blisters, may appear in addition to, or instead of, the warts. Any chameleon showing either type of growth needs to be quarantined and started on appropriate oral meds immediately. Disease progression to death is remarkably fast without proper drugs, and some chameleons will keep eating as normal even though covered with warts. WC sellers have advertised infected chameleons for sale, they hide their other symptoms so well. Some chameleons die within a week or so of showing symptoms. Morbidity (infected number) is very close to mortality rate (death from infected) with this condition, if left untreated. Drugs known to have cured melleri with this condition are Fluconazole oral, with Amakacin antibiotic injectable to target opportunistic bacteria; drugs that worked for other chameleon species are topical Miconazole and Itraconazole; a drug that did not work on a chameleon was topical over-the-counter antifungal with a Baytril oral for bacteria. Properly medicated chameleons can recover in about 30-60 days with minimal to zero scarring.
"The treatment that seems to work is treating with Flagyl and Baytril internally and Surolan (Miconazole) externally. What kills them is dehydration. They have to be hydrated every day for at least 30 minutes." - Brion Miller "

This can be seen on their health page located here:
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/index.html

I would follow the advice the others have given and also get your guy to the vet as soon as you can.

 

[Murrdox]

I'm almost glad you didn't include any full body photos of him. He looks absolutely horrible from the pictures you included.

Please get him to a vet. I don't know why you waited a "few months" to get some help for him. I hope it's not too late.

The spot on his back could be a burn, but I have my doubts. It looks like it might be a burn, and the tops of his spines are blackened as well, which would match a burn pattern. The blackened and greyed areas around his face look much worse though, and he looks like he has a growth around his jaw, which could be mouth rot.

This could be a LOT of things - get him to a good vet.

 

[Pure]

Wile force feeding, don't over do it. They don't need a whole lot of food. One of my Melleri was able to actually put on weight only eating 1-2 super worms a week. So don't over do it.

I agree with the rest, you need to get him to a vet.

 

[kinyonga]

As gesang said it could be CANV. IMHO you should not touch the spots or handle the chameleon without wearing latex gloves and the chameleon should be quarantined in another room. You should look after it after you look after any other reptiles you have and not go back into the room with the other ones after looking after the sick one.

Also...here's a recipe for bug juice..
http://adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html

I'm surprised that this chameleon is still alive if this has been going on for a month or more.

It needs to see a good reptile vet ASAP.

 

[ataraxia]

he is isolated and i have had fecals done on him by airport vet clinic here in terre haute and all have shown no parasites. it look like he has canv. the middle picture on the melleridiscovery site on fungal infection looks like it. @$!@#$ thanks for the link to the bug juice and on the fungus. its a shame we dont have a good rept vet here locally. i will talk to airport vet clinic tomorrow to ask if they have these drugs mentioned on the site and bring them the information. hopefully we can get this guy some help.



heres a full shot of him.

[img=http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1489/meller.th.jpg]

 

[summoner12]

Keep him hydrated.....

Can you fill out the 'how to ask for help' questions? there is a stickied thread in the health clinic with the questions. I am just wondering how this guy is kept and things of that nature.

 

[ataraxia]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - pvc/screen 7'hx4'wx4'w
* Lighting - uvb 10.0/uvb 2.0/neodymium heat bulb
* Temperature - im not really sure of the basking temps but it is 40 watt neo bulb and he is able to get about 16-18 inches from it "in 2 months i have only seen him bask twice". room temperature is 74F. i have played with this. i have raised it increments of 2 degrees to 80F with no change in feeding. i feel he is most comfortable with 74F "moves around the cage more and more alert"
* Humidity - he gets manual misting by my hand everyday for atleast 15 minutes. i also have a habamister that sprays for 1 minute 4 times a day. live plants also for humidity. home made drip jug.
* Plants - umbrella 4' tall and a pathos
* Placement - it is in the dining room in the corner. the highest branch for him to climb on is a little over 6' from the ground "he is above my head". no fans running or vents near his cage.
* Location - indiana


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - melleri, age unknown, was told a male
* Handling - every other day for less than a minute to put in shower.
* Feeding - crickets, mealworms, super worms, dubai roaches and pinkies. crickets and dubais gut load fruits and veggies. on the crickets food i will put calcium supplement in the food before i feed. i keep my meal worms in oatmeal with a few slices of carrots
* Supplements - he hasnt eatten anything but i have reptical
* Watering - he gets manual misting by my hand everyday for atleast 15 minutes. i also have a habamister that sprays for 1 minute 4 times a day. home made drip jug. i havent seen him drink in the last few days but usually yes he will drink. he gets a shower chaimber every other day he stays in the shower till he doesnt drink anymore usually 20-30 minutes.
* Fecal Description - havent seen one in a while.
* History -
* Current Problem - not eatting in 2 months and fungus develpoing

 

[summoner12]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - pvc/screen 7'hx4'wx4'w
* Lighting - uvb 10.0/uvb 2.0/neodymium heat bulb

Not sure what kind of heat lamp that is but junk it. It could be putting out UV he doesn't like..... which might be why he never basks in it. Melleri bask, and love to, so this tells us something about the lamp. What kind of 10.0 lamp? what brand, what type (linear or compact). How high is this lamp to where he sits most of the time?

You can get rid of the 2.0... useless. I would recomend getting a GE 6500K tube lamp with a reptisun 5.0 (if you can get him close to it...) and a 10.0 linear tube if he has some distance from the lamp. Since the cage is 4' wide and deep use a dual T8 48" fixture from Lowes. They sell the GE lamps and a T8 fixture is only 13 bucks. buy the zoo med reptisun from LLL and tell them you want the T8 size lamp, not T12. AND tell them to check the lamp.... you want a 32w lamp, not a 36w lamp.

* Temperature - im not really sure of the basking temps but it is 40 watt neo bulb and he is able to get about 16-18 inches from it "in 2 months i have only seen him bask twice". room temperature is 74F. i have played with this. i have raised it increments of 2 degrees to 80F with no change in feeding. i feel he is most comfortable with 74F "moves around the cage more and more alert"

They will like cooler temps at night... and 74-78 during the day is fine... my melleri get upset with temps in the low 80s... ambient temp goes above 85 they get fussy.

basking temp should get warm.... BUT don't let them get close. they will burn themselves trying to get the core body temp up. I was just talking to Kristina about this the other day.. ya gotta keep an eye on them.

* Humidity - he gets manual misting by my hand everyday for atleast 15 minutes. i also have a habamister that sprays for 1 minute 4 times a day. live plants also for humidity. home made drip jug.

this sounds like it could be stepped up a bit. I would invest in a Mist King or build the DIY mister I have made a thread about.

* Plants - umbrella 4' tall and a pathos

Get some Ficus and trim it down... Make a few horizontal perches for him at different levels in the cage. soaker hose works well and then slide bamboo into the hose to make it rigid.

* Placement - it is in the dining room in the corner. the highest branch for him to climb on is a little over 6' from the ground "he is above my head". no fans running or vents near his cage.

sounds fine to me.. but see my above comment about branches.

* Location - indiana


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - melleri, age unknown, was told a male
* Handling - every other day for less than a minute to put in shower.

why in the shower?

* Feeding - crickets, mealworms, super worms, dubai roaches and pinkies. crickets and dubais gut load fruits and veggies. on the crickets food i will put calcium supplement in the food before i feed. i keep my meal worms in oatmeal with a few slices of carrots

don't use carrots for a while.. use sweet potato for moisture.

* Supplements - he hasnt eatten anything but i have reptical

what kind of reptical? W/D3? W/o D3?

* Watering - he gets manual misting by my hand everyday for atleast 15 minutes. i also have a habamister that sprays for 1 minute 4 times a day. home made drip jug. i havent seen him drink in the last few days but usually yes he will drink. he gets a shower chaimber every other day he stays in the shower till he doesnt drink anymore usually 20-30 minutes.

Try making a system that will function in his cage. so you don't have to stress him out by moving him around.

* Fecal Description - havent seen one in a while.

How long?

* History -
* Current Problem - not eatting in 2 months and fungus develpoing

I would get him to a vet and have things checked out.. but also maybe his cage doesn't dry out enough? a fan isn't a bad idea.... I keep air moving in my cham room all the time, night and day.

 

[Pure]

On top of answering Kev about the with or without D3, could you be a little more specific in about your dusting routine?

In all honesty, besides the fungus, he doesn't look to be that bad off. Is that an old pic? I was expecting to see him wasting away. Like I said before, they don't need much food. Especially if they are being very sedimentary.

 

[ataraxia]

Not sure what kind of heat lamp that is but junk it. It could be putting out UV he doesn't like..... which might be why he never basks in it. Melleri bask, and love to, so this tells us something about the lamp. What kind of 10.0 lamp? what brand, what type (linear or compact). How high is this lamp to where he sits most of the time?

compact exo terra repti glo 10.0 / tube exo terra reptiglo 2.0...what do i use for basking?

You can get rid of the 2.0... useless. I would recomend getting a GE 6500K tube lamp with a reptisun 5.0 (if you can get him close to it...) and a 10.0 linear tube if he has some distance from the lamp. Since the cage is 4' wide and deep use a dual T8 48" fixture from Lowes. They sell the GE lamps and a T8 fixture is only 13 bucks. buy the zoo med reptisun from LLL and tell them you want the T8 size lamp, not T12. AND tell them to check the lamp.... you want a 32w lamp, not a 36w lamp.

2.0 will be gone...i will buy this next week



They will like cooler temps at night... and 74-78 during the day is fine... my melleri get upset with temps in the low 80s... ambient temp goes above 85 they get fussy.

i honestly wont be able to get temps much lower maybe 72. i have a baby

basking temp should get warm.... BUT don't let them get close. they will burn themselves trying to get the core body temp up. I was just talking to Kristina about this the other day.. ya gotta keep an eye on them.


how warm? what do you use?



this sounds like it could be stepped up a bit. I would invest in a Mist King or build the DIY mister I have made a thread about.


this will be done as soon as he eats. at the moment should i have mine turn on more frequently?

Get some Ficus and trim it down... Make a few horizontal perches for him at different levels in the cage. soaker hose works well and then slide bamboo into the hose to make it rigid.


i love the soaker hose idea!! will do!!

sounds fine to me.. but see my above comment about branches.



why in the shower?

i can make the water luke warm and leave the water on full time for longer periods then i can manually do it.

don't use carrots for a while.. use sweet potato for moisture.

will do

what kind of reptical? W/D3? W/o D3?

both

Try making a system that will function in his cage. so you don't have to stress him out by moving him around.

will do

How long?

well over two weeks

I would get him to a vet and have things checked out.. but also maybe his cage doesn't dry out enough? a fan isn't a bad idea.... I keep air moving in my cham room all the time, night and day.

do you have pics of your set up and a list of what you use? you have always had good advice and know your stuff.

 

[ataraxia]

On top of answering Kev about the with or without D3, could you be a little more specific in about your dusting routine?

In all honesty, besides the fungus, he doesn't look to be that bad off. Is that an old pic? I was expecting to see him wasting away. Like I said before, they don't need much food. Especially if they are being very sedimentary.

no all pics taken within minutes of each other. he is photogenic at times. he looks horrible in person. although he does not eat anything i dust twice a week. monday with calcium w/ d3 and thursday calcium w/o.

 

[summoner12]

do you have pics of your set up and a list of what you use? you have always had good advice and know your stuff.

Pat's little boy cage... errrrr tub.

I made holes for drainage...

This was pat's med. sized cage...

This is his big boy cage... I hope I don't have to move him again.... unless he'll get along with lenny and chris in the free range, I think he might do better alone in a cage.

this pic doesn't have any vines in the cage... but you can see how to trim the ficus. This was right after I trimmed... so it's a bit bare. It has filled in a little better.

here is the cage with some vines.

New Free Range In The Works...

This is lenny's old free range in the living room. It is not finished... I had vines running all around and the lighting changed over time. but ya get the idea.

This is Henry's range... not much has changed with his other than lighting.

 

[ataraxia]

thanks you for the pics. i love that plant. i bet they will love the free range once done. i took him to the vet today! it took 2 hours but hey we finally got it all together. started him on his meds. hopefully he can pull through this.