Misinformation

[jessica]

Jessica said..."I also hear complaints about members posting to many picture threads. So how are new members going to be or feel part of a community if they are bashed for posting?"....I have requested once in a while that people not start more threads...but its when its about the same problem they are having with the same chameleon. It makes it hard to follow what all has been going on with the chameleon and its problem when I try to answer...so I might not get the whole picture and not give a good answer.

I completley agree with you, having all the information when it comes to health issues in one place makes giving a well thought out, helpful answer easier. You are one of the most patient helpful members here! If you are sighing or rolling your eyes behind the computer it definatly doesnt come through in your posts.

The comment I made was directed towards picture threads. We all were excited about our first chameleon or a first clutch. It has to be upsetting to newer or excited keepers to have a established member comment on how they have posted to many pictures and are tired of seeing there beloved chameleons.

 

[sandrachameleon]

The comment I made was directed towards picture threads. We all were excited about our first chameleon or a first clutch. It has to be upsetting to newer or excited keepers to have a established member comment on how they have posted to many pictures and are tired of seeing there beloved chameleons.

Ya, Those established people should just stop looking at picture threads if they get tired of looking, rather than sour grape all over the proud poster.

 

[Thompson]

I agree with this 100%. takes the words right out of my mouth.

Some questions may be repetative to a person who has been here awhile, but that doesnt make the questions any less valid. The person asking is asking for a reason, and that reason is not just to annoy the rest of us. It takes awhile before people get the idea of the Search function, and begin to trust it. It takes awhile for people to decide which members advice they trust, and which people they disagree with.

We were ALL new to this once.

Patience.

If you see a post that you feel contains incorrect information, make your own reply with what you feel is the accurate information, and politely explain why you feel the other post was off.



Anyone can make mistakes.
Those little green "Ranking" icons are a result of receiving reputation points, not just "time in".

And just occassionally, remember that the person you think is wrong may actually be right.

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

New member or old member....I love you all. (well most of you)

It is our jobs as senior members and members to help the juniors with whatever you need. There is really nothing we can do. The questions keep coming in, they don't learn that they should search their question before asking, etc.

We were all new here and we were all the same! Some of us are young (like myself) and I know that the young members here get very happy easily and proud to be part of the forums, that we post and share EVERYTHING here to our forum friends. It makes us feel good to give advice and to receive. That really goes for any member I'm sure

I know this subject has been talked about sooo many times but honestly..what can you do other then help them and tell them to search their question next time? I think it's good that they post. They get to learn from the best and gain friendships with one another.

Whether you are sick of the same questions or not, that YOUR own opinon/problem. We are all here to help each other out.

 

[Lizardlover]

I dont know why everyone has gotten so far off-topic about "answering repetative questions". My thread was a simple reminder to know what you are talking about BEFORE trying to help someone. If you are unsure it is best not to post and give wrong information. I personally don't think being a Senior member means anything, some of them are just as bad as Junior members, and some Junior members come to this forum offering great advice and have loads of experience, so perhaps the Reputation system should be emphasized a bit more.

 

[sandrachameleon]

My thread was a simple reminder to know what you are talking about BEFORE trying to help someone. If you are unsure it is best not to post and give wrong information.

I dare say most people do not intentionally post misinformation.

 

[Lizardlover]

I dare say most people do not intentionally post misinformation.

Which is why I said if you are unsure to double check or not post at all.

 

[Ace]

The other side of the coin is the consumer's ability to distinguish between valid information and verbal jetsam. I'm afraid "poorly supported" information is an unavoidable by-product of an open system. I teach my younger students to not believe anything until they have cross referenced for accuracy. Even the term "IMHO" is somewhat meaningless without rigorous review and well supported debate. A huge problem is the emotional/developmental immaturity of the average person (which is separate from age and intelligence) which causes individuals to overreact, take personally, attack personally, be rude or inappropriate. One can see it in politics as well as forums. This makes it impossible to deal with differences or proceed rationally to a "fact". If we are actually a rational species (I have my doubts), then we should be able to exhaustively debate different views respectfully. This is, ideally, how knowledge/wisdom advances.

Some questions may be repetative to a person who has been here awhile, but that doesnt make the questions any less valid. The person asking is asking for a reason, and that reason is not just to annoy the rest of us. It takes awhile before people get the idea of the Search function, and begin to trust it. It takes awhile for people to decide which members advice they trust, and which people they disagree with.

We were ALL new to this once.

Patience.

If you see a post that you feel contains incorrect information, make your own reply with what you feel is the accurate information, and politely explain why you feel the other post was off.



Anyone can make mistakes.
Those little green "Ranking" icons are a result of receiving reputation points, not just "time in".

And just occassionally, remember that the person you think is wrong may actually be right.

these are the posts that still make me decide to help out whenever i can

Its sometimes hard but worth it in the long run, if you give time to help those that need it, then those exact people will oneday continue the help and give out "correct" information

 

[kinyonga]

Ace said..."Its sometimes hard but worth it in the long run, if you give time to help those that need it, then those exact people will oneday continue the help and give out "correct" information"...this is a big part of why I keep on answering the repetitive posts....and a lot of the others too!

Jessica said..."If you are sighing or rolling your eyes behind the computer it definatly doesnt come through in your posts"...thank goodness it doesn't show in my posts! Thanks for the comment about patience too!

 

[ataraxia]

It seems like lately there has been a lot of bad info given out in threads, I'd just like to give a reminder to PLEASE check your info before posting.

Which is why I said if you are unsure to double check or not post at all.

im a bad guy for this...but some must learn please understand we all are human and make plenty of mistakes. its a great thing to learn from your mishaps. if you take something positive from those situations. you will become wiser for the next event.

everyone here for the most part means well, even replying with wrong info.

here is a prime example of misinformation about prehensile tails from the original poster of this thread.

heres the thread about green tree monitor tail problem
https://www.chameleonforums.com/need-some-opinions-my-monitors-tail-64454/


heres some links stating they do have prehensile tails.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_tree_monitor

http://www.petsuppliesplus.com/animalcare/Reptiles/greentreemonitor.htm

 

[Thompson]

Please next time if you see someone has posted misinformation, please correct that person rather than just sitting at your computer shaking your head and then clicking away from the thread with the bad info. In this way you are helping out the op that was probably going to take the bad advice and you are also teaching the person that posted the bad advice something new.

 

[Todnedo]

It seems like lately there has been a lot of bad info given out in threads, I'd just like to give a reminder to PLEASE check your info before posting.

I think the mods should delete post and threads that are BS and send warnings to the members that post that crap.

 

[fluxlizard]

I guess I'm wondering what some examples are.

I'd rather a bunch of people pop up and say that something hasn't been their experience or argue a point rather than see censorship unless the case is really extreme.

I guess maybe I don't participate in enough beginner threads to have seen a lot of misinformation.

But my concern is the areas where the whole truth is not known, yet believed to be known, and I'll give an example-

20 years ago I was using all glass enclosures to very successfully breed healthy chameleons. ~15 years ago some prominent well published individuals decided chameleons *had* to have screen enclosures or they would not be healthy. This was spouted as God's only true way (tm) for the next 15 years or so all over the internet and anyone who disagreed was just immoral and worthy of contempt. A year or so ago, a prominent well published individual here on the forums put out an article explaining how all glass enclosures could be useful and desirable. Suddenly the truth (tm) changed for many in the hobby and some of the haters became believers.

This is only one example. There are a few other points of husbandry that are posted again and again here on the forums as THE truth that I feel have been taken to the extreme, similar to the enclosure situation.

If we allow only a single viewpoint and classify everything else as misinformation, we stop questioning our husbandry and stagnate and stop progressing. If we have to argue our point from time to time, it benefits everyone whatever the view on either side as points not considered come to light. I'm very happy for my membership in the forums for this reason- I've felt like I've wanted to constantly evaluate my husbandry, compare it with others I've found here that I consider knowledgable, and make adjustments to my thinking.

 

[Hoj]

I guess I'm wondering what some examples are.

I'd rather a bunch of people pop up and say that something hasn't been their experience or argue a point rather than see censorship unless the case is really extreme.

I guess maybe I don't participate in enough beginner threads to have seen a lot of misinformation.

But my concern is the areas where the whole truth is not known, yet believed to be known, and I'll give an example-

20 years ago I was using all glass enclosures to very successfully breed healthy chameleons. ~15 years ago some prominent well published individuals decided chameleons *had* to have screen enclosures or they would not be healthy. This was spouted as God's only true way (tm) for the next 15 years or so all over the internet and anyone who disagreed was just immoral and worthy of contempt. A year or so ago, a prominent well published individual here on the forums put out an article explaining how all glass enclosures could be useful and desirable. Suddenly the truth (tm) changed for many in the hobby and some of the haters became believers.

This is only one example. There are a few other points of husbandry that are posted again and again here on the forums as THE truth that I feel have been taken to the extreme, similar to the enclosure situation.

If we allow only a single viewpoint and classify everything else as misinformation, we stop questioning our husbandry and stagnate and stop progressing. If we have to argue our point from time to time, it benefits everyone whatever the view on either side as points not considered come to light. I'm very happy for my membership in the forums for this reason- I've felt like I've wanted to constantly evaluate my husbandry, compare it with others I've found here that I consider knowledgable, and make adjustments to my thinking.

exactly, couldnt agree more

 

[robmd1]

lol im not positive but jessica's gripe about picture threads mite be for me as ive tried to stop all other posts an only do picture threads an updates its safer i notice who does an doesnt make comments on my threads its always funny cause they always get alot of hits but comments nowhere near hits an im fine with that im not postin pictures for people who dont want to see em im postin pictures most importantly for myself an keepin track of chams growth an color changes an then for others that want to look at them lol @ to many pictures theres a simple remedy for it tooo dont look at the pictures..
weve been thru rep points an how they dont mean anything but maybe someone likes to be social doesnt mean they have the rite info no matter how much experiance they say they have. i have a few that i trust to go to if i have questions if i cant find it searching for it..

 

[sandrachameleon]

Which is why I said if you are unsure to double check or not post at all.

I dont think they are unsure. They are perhaps over-enthusiastic or over-confident. But frankly most people who post just think they have something helpful to add. There is no intent to do wrong.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I think the mods should delete post and threads that are BS and send warnings to the members that post that crap.

I am not in favour of heavy censorship.

Plus, removing posts someone deems "BS" could stiffle lively discussion, education, and learning.
Even bad posts can have value - educating the person who posted the bad info and anyone who felt similarily, or finding out why they posted what they did and perhaps gaining a new understanding.

An example (perhaps not the best example but simple for me to type): There was a time when the predominant feeling on this forum was that screen cages were a MUST. Imagine if during that time a post with "BS" information regarding using glass or wood was removed. How then would we all have become better educated, learning that screen cages are NOT necessarily a Must, and indeed sometimes are not even a good choice?

edit: ha ha! I see fluxliard else used the same example and comes from a similar view point!

 

[Chris Anderson]

They do say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Someone mentioned that when you see someone has posted misinformation that you should correct them rather than just clicking away from the thread. I personally agree. If misinformation is not corrected, it has a tendency to be passed on again and again. A good example is the issues with compact fluorescent UV bulbs. When news of certain CF bulbs being associated with eye issues broke, people grouped all CF bulbs together as bad, not just the ones that had problems associated with them and that sentiment has been passed on time and time again even though the companies changed the detrimental formulas years ago. To this day people are posting this same misinformation and often its because people didn't take the time to correct other people when they posted it in another thread.

Chris

 

[robmd1]

yeah no censorship cause we love all the which is better mistking or aquazamp threads and the hi im new an i have a waterfall an im keepin it in cause it looks cool i came home the other day an there was over 480 new posts i got all excited rite on cool stuff to read? umm nope not really out of those 480 maybe 15-20 worth reading an some were classifieds. sorry but ill look at everyones pictures before ill read another i have a waterfall an its cool thread..

 

[jessica]

lol im not positive but jessica's gripe about picture threads mite be for me as ive tried to stop all other posts an only do picture threads an updates its safer i notice who does an doesnt make comments on my threads its always funny cause they always get alot of hits but comments nowhere near hits an im fine with that im not postin pictures for people who dont want to see em im postin pictures most importantly for myself an keepin track of chams growth an color changes an then for others that want to look at them lol @ to many pictures theres a simple remedy for it tooo dont look at the pictures..
weve been thru rep points an how they dont mean anything but maybe someone likes to be social doesnt mean they have the rite info no matter how much experiance they say they have. i have a few that i trust to go to if i have questions if i cant find it searching for it..

Hi Rob,

I believe we are having a miscommunication if I am wrong please correct me! My gripe was not towards people that post only or multiple picture threads. I enjoy all of your pictures (especially ones that include Arley) and I am actually one of the guilty parties that look at every one of them and usually don't comment .

My gripe was more directed towards established members that complain about posting. Point being if established members don't want new members posting recycled information, asking beginner questions, posting or responding to "excessive" picture threads then how are they to feel a part of this community? By reading stickies?

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When I first learned about the chameleon forums I was ecstatic that I actually found a place where it didn't matter man, women, young or old we all shared a common interest... Chameleons. The excitement to be able to learn, share and may be make some friends was quickly crushed by a similar thread to this. It was quite a disappointment when a "Senior" member that I had come to respect and some ways admired started a thread putting the new members down and "put them in their place" sorta speak. I must not be the only one put off by these threads, since reading several similar posts even some of the more established, knowledgeable, friendlier members do not post 1/4 of the amount they use to.

I read about 98% of the threads every day (yes even the repeated question and the hundred fuzzy photos of a chameleon) and I am not as verbally active as I could or want to be, simply because I don't feel like defending my knowledge.