Misting during the day?

[PlanetRemulak]

I had to move my cham out to our main room yesterday. Higher ceilings and better airflow - I assumed - but now I’m back at square one with both temps and humidity.

After the move yesterday, the cage sat at around 39%-43%. I wouldn’t have worried about it if I could at least hit 50% for a while, but I couldn’t get the RH up to 50% at any point. It was equally low at night - 58% was as high as it would go AFTER misting. Temps also stayed high (77 F at the top when I last checked). The very bottom of the cage is also staying as HOT as the top.. unless that probe is way off. So thoroughly frustrating. I had an evaporative cooler on the top of the cage all night, and it didn’t help bring temps down much at all (the cooler was definitely more effective when used in a smaller room). I’ll be swapping out the window shrink film with corrugated plastic on all 3 sides, and I’ve adjusted my cham’s MistKing to go off at the following times:

12 am - 3 mins
3 am - 2 mins
5 am - 2 mins
7 am - 5 mins
7 pm - 5 mins

Is it possible to mist during the day without risking RI’s? I’m hoping that misting more frequently at night, as well as misting for longer when the lights go on and off helps bring humidity up and temps down. In addition to misting more frequently at night, I’ll probably have to rely on the evaporative cooler AND the ice pack/humidifier trick (that makes me a little nervous as that’s still technically fogging over 68 F..?). Of course three digit weather and heatwaves do nothing to help the dilemma with RH and night time temperature drops, but I can’t wait until this awful summer weather is over and done with.


Thanks!

 

[Beman]

I think you have a good plan with switching the siding. Hybrid enclosures work much better with low humidity environments. You still want airflow though. Remember you want gradients. You will have pockets of higher humidity in the cage. Your levels are not absurdly low.

I do not mist during the day. I want the cage to fully dry out. I do have longer misting sessions though. This keeps my ambient humidity right where I need it. Granted I have lots of plants and a hybrid cage.

Remember that your levels at basking will be lower then mid cage too. Try not to drive yourself crazy with these details. Get as close as you can in your environment.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I think you have a good plan with switching the siding. Hybrid enclosures work much better with low humidity environments. You still want airflow though. Remember you want gradients. You will have pockets of higher humidity in the cage. Your levels are not absurdly low.

I do not mist during the day. I want the cage to fully dry out. I do have longer misting sessions though. This keeps my ambient humidity right where I need it. Granted I have lots of plants and a hybrid cage.

Remember that your levels at basking will be lower then mid cage too. Try not to drive yourself crazy with these details. Get as close as you can in your environment.

Thank you for this! I’ll make adjustments where I can as soon as possible, but the reassurance is really helpful.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

After the move yesterday, the cage sat at around 39%-43%. I wouldn’t have worried about it if I could at least hit 50% for a while, but I couldn’t get the RH up to 50% at any point.

We have to learn to think in terms of microclimates. RH within a couple inches of lush plants can be higher than what it is 4- 6" or more away, and chameleons live in that "close to the plant" zone—especially at night. Plants raise humidity in 2 ways: evaporation and transpiration; misting drives the former, plant hydration the latter.

Misting at night generates evaporative cooling as well as humidity. If there is insufficient chimney effect, this can be augmented with a muffin fan drawing air up through the enclosure, hopefully making your evap. cooling unit unnecessary.

Corrugated plastic sounds good, but I'd keep the shrink wrap (or .06" acrylic) on the door (leaving the panel under the door open as a ventilation intake). IF using a muffin fan to help drive cooling & ventilation, some of the top (areas not occupied by lights) can be blocked off with corrugated plastic as well to help hold in humidity, but both temperature & RH will have to be monitored carefully until a balance is achieved.

I’ve adjusted my cham’s MistKing to go off at the following times:

12 am - 3 mins
3 am - 2 mins
5 am - 2 mins
7 am - 5 mins
7 pm - 5 mins

Is it possible to mist during the day without risking RI’s?

Yes, BUT... Have you timed how long it takes for the enclosure to dry out completely after a thorough misting? If so, I add an hour to this to figure out how long between daytime mistings, and I'd keep them brief.

I keep all misting sessions the same length because once the enclosure is wet, anything further just runs down the drain and is wasted.

FWIW, my schedule again...
7 am lights-on
1 pm (nominal noon)
7 pm lights-off
10 pm (every 3 hrs all night)
1 am
4 am
Repeat. All sessions same length—2 min. Yours may be different.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

We have to learn to think in terms of microclimates. RH within a couple inches of lush plants can be higher than what it is 4- 6" or more away, and chameleons live in that "close to the plant" zone—especially at night. Plants raise humidity in 2 ways: evaporation and transpiration; misting drives the former, plant hydration the latter.

Misting at night generates evaporative cooling as well as humidity. If there is insufficient chimney effect, this can be augmented with a muffin fan drawing air up through the enclosure, hopefully making your evap. cooling unit unnecessary.

Corrugated plastic sounds good, but I'd keep the shrink wrap (or .06" acrylic) on the door (leaving the panel under the door open as a ventilation intake). IF using a muffin fan to help drive cooling & ventilation, some of the top (areas not occupied by lights) can be blocked off with corrugated plastic as well to help hold in humidity, but both temperature & RH will have to be monitored carefully until a balance is achieved.


Yes, BUT... Have you timed how long it takes for the enclosure to dry out completely after a thorough misting? If so, I add an hour to this to figure out how long between daytime mistings, and I'd keep them brief.

I keep all misting sessions the same length because once the enclosure is wet, anything further just runs down the drain and is wasted.

FWIW, my schedule again...
7 am lights-on
1 pm (nominal noon)
7 pm lights-off
10 pm (every 3 hrs all night)
1 am
4 am
Repeat. All sessions same length—2 min. Yours may be different.

It takes about two hours or so for everything to dry out. 3 hours in between mistings couldn’t hurt. I’ll have to play around with this, but I like the idea of you keeping all your schedules at a consistent two minutes. I’ll give it a shot and see how it goes.

I did get a box fan! That thing can move a LOT of air. I’ll adjust my misting schedule to 2 minutes each session and try it with the box/muffin fan, see where that gets me. I hadn’t even considered covering the top front door with shrink film and leaving the service door uncovered! Why didn’t I just get a PVC enclosure to begin with?? ‍

Ah, well. Mistakes I won’t be repeating if I can ever get my fiancé to agree to another chameleon after this

 

[suprdude]

For those who don't mist during the day, doesn't that mean your chameleon has nothing to drink (moisture dripping off leaves) all day?

 

[PlanetRemulak]

For those who don't mist during the day, doesn't that mean your chameleon has nothing to drink (moisture dripping off leaves) all day?

I run a dripper during the day. It seems to me that responses to drippers vary by each individ chameleon, but mine definitely seems interested

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

It takes about two hours or so for everything to dry out. 3 hours in between mistings couldn’t hurt. I’ll have to play around with this, but I like the idea of you keeping all your schedules at a consistent two minutes. I’ll give it a shot and see how it goes.

Session length may vary depending on your enclosure. When the water starts running into your drain bucket is the signal.

I did get a box fan! That thing can move a LOT of air. I’ll adjust my misting schedule to 2 minutes each session and try it with the box/muffin fan, see where that gets me.

I think I know what you meant, but to clarify for lurkers:

—————

Box Fan (20" x 20", 3 speeds)——————Muffin Fan (4" x 4", single or variable speed)

I was talking about a muffin fan; a box fan might blow a chameleon into the next county!

I hadn’t even considered covering the top front door with shrink film and leaving the service door uncovered! Why didn’t I just get a PVC enclosure to begin with?? ‍

Ah, well. Mistakes I won’t be repeating if I can ever get my fiancé to agree to another chameleon after this

I've been trying to recommend hybrid enclosures for some time in any/all but a chameleon species' native climate. Unfortunately, screen enclosures still seem to be the paradigm, and cost difference is significant.

I hope there is some kind of pet that will light up your fiance's life. Marriage is a contract, and contracts are negotiations.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Session length may vary depending on your enclosure. When the water starts running into your drain bucket is the signal.


I think I know what you meant, but to clarify for lurkers:
View attachment 307848—————View attachment 307849
Box Fan (20" x 20", 3 speeds)——————Muffin Fan (4" x 4", single or variable speed)

I was talking about a muffin fan; a box fan might blow a chameleon into the next county!


I've been trying to recommend hybrid enclosures for some time in any/all but a chameleon species' native climate. Unfortunately, screen enclosures still seem to be the paradigm, and cost difference is significant.

I hope there is some kind of pet that will light up your fiance's life. Marriage is a contract, and contracts are negotiations.

Sorry about that! Allow me to clarify as well. It was a muffin fan that I recently purchased for use on the top of my chameleon’s enclosure. I definitely don’t recommend blowing away any chameleons into the next county over with a box fan

I’m in complete agreement on all things pertaining to hybrid cages and marriage related negotiations. That being said, I do think my fiancé is warming up to the cham we currently have. He stops by his cage every so often to take a look at him (unless I chase him off). That being said, my fiancé had to feed my little guy for me today and was not at all thrilled to learn that BSFL pupate into flies. I on the other hand still find his reaction amusing lol

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Sorry about that! Allow me to clarify as well. It was a muffin fan that I recently purchased for use on the top of my chameleon’s enclosure. I definitely don’t recommend blowing away any chameleons into the next county over with a box fan

I’m in complete agreement on all things pertaining to hybrid cages and marriage related negotiations. That being said, I do think my fiancé is warming up to the cham we currently have. He stops by his cage every so often to take a look at him (unless I chase him off). That being said, my fiancé had to feed my little guy for me today and was not at all thrilled to learn that BSFL pupate into flies. I on the other hand still find his reaction amusing lol

I knew what you meant, and of course my "next county" quip was hyperbole.

My Missus has (until recently) never been a reptile person. She was very good about tolerating my anoles many years ago, and agreeable to reptiles as long as:

1. They were MY reptiles (and sole responsibility), and
2. NO SNAKES.

She got her rabbit and cat (over the years).

Funny thing (to me, but a lot of things are funny to me) is that it was the bearded dragon that won her over. She wouldn't even touch him for the first year, but now they're BFFs, he chills with her more than with me, and she's taken over prepping his daily salads (bugs and poop-cleaning are still my province).

... And now she has her own baby tortoise.

 

[Beman]

For those who don't mist during the day, doesn't that mean your chameleon has nothing to drink (moisture dripping off leaves) all day?

I run a dripper for 3 hours during the day. from 10-1pm. Solo plastic cup then I put 5 tiny pin holes around the outside edge on the bottom of it. Set it on top of the screen over the plants. Add ice cubes for a slow drip or water. Creates several tiny drops coming through the screen on to the plants below. It is light weight so it does not damage the screen. Works perfectly and cheap to do.

 

[jamest0o0]

Misting during the day is fine. That was the method people have done for years and years without problems. What is important is ventilation and not overheating your cham. I always hose my Parsons mid day in the hot sun for 1-2hrs. No problems... reason? Ventilation. We discourage heavy misting during the day now because newbies might not be able to tell the difference between warm humid air(no big deal most cases) and stagnant humid air(bad). There are ways to up the ventilation like using a pc fan to pull air out.

 

[jamest0o0]

Drippers never worked for me, never had one of my 5 chameleons touch them. I think it is a trained thing though, I tended to go for heavy misting, and lately fogging on my free ranged cham. So that's probably why. Dripper is great if they'll use it. Hydration is the ultimate goal, not so much how we do it.

 

[Beman]

Misting during the day is fine. That was the method people have done for years and years without problems. What is important is ventilation and not overheating your cham. I always hose my Parsons mid day in the hot sun for 1-2hrs. No problems... reason? Ventilation. We discourage heavy misting during the day now because newbies might not be able to tell the difference between warm humid air(no big deal most cases) and stagnant humid air(bad). There are ways to up the ventilation like using a pc fan to pull air out.

"I always hose my parsons" and what I picture you doing LOL

 

[suprdude]

I run a dripper during the day. It seems to me that responses to drippers vary by each individ chameleon, but mine definitely seems interested

Thanks, I forgot about drippers

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I knew what you meant, and of course my "next county" quip was hyperbole.

My Missus has (until recently) never been a reptile person. She was very good about tolerating my anoles many years ago, and agreeable to reptiles as long as:

1. They were MY reptiles (and sole responsibility), and
2. NO SNAKES.

She got her rabbit and cat (over the years).

Funny thing (to me, but a lot of things are funny to me) is that it was the bearded dragon that won her over. She wouldn't even touch him for the first year, but now they're BFFs, he chills with her more than with me, and she's taken over prepping his daily salads (bugs and poop-cleaning are still my province).

... And now she has her own baby tortoise.

The “NO SNAKES“ rule seems to run pretty standard in those just beginning to acclimate to reptiles.
I was given the same rule before I moved out of my mom’s place in my 20’s, and I was given that very rule again by my fiancé haha

It’s actually pretty comical that she now enjoys the perks of beardie ownership and leaves cleanup duties all to you, despite the bearded dragon being yours! Her tortoise is absolutely precious, by the way! I’d love to see pics of him in his setup.

Hydration is the ultimate goal, not so much how we do it.

This is definitely something I’ve lost sight of when preparing for a new chameleon. My previous chameleon was a veiled I purchased in my late teens, and he was kept alive and healthy well into my 20’s. Not sure if he ended up doing as well as he did due to dumb luck, but he was misted during daylight hours. The information regarding hydration was different then, but he still managed to become an old lIzard grandpa. I’d do well to remember that. I hope my current cham lives to lizard senility as well lol

thank you for your input! Always appreciated.

 

[jamest0o0]

The “NO SNAKES“ rule seems to run pretty standard in those just beginning to acclimate to reptiles.
I was given the same rule before I moved out of my mom’s place in my 20’s, and I was given that very rule again by my fiancé haha

It’s actually pretty comical that she now enjoys the perks of beardie ownership and leaves cleanup duties all to you, despite the bearded dragon being yours! Her tortoise is absolutely precious, by the way! I’d love to see pics of him in his setup.


This is definitely something I’ve lost sight of when preparing for a new chameleon. My previous chameleon was a veiled I purchased in my late teens, and he was kept alive and healthy well into my 20’s. Not sure if he ended up doing as well as he did due to dumb luck, but he was misted during daylight hours. The information regarding hydration was different then, but he still managed to become an old lIzard grandpa. I’d do well to remember that. I hope my current cham lives to lizard senility as well lol

thank you for your input! Always appreciated.

Veileds tend to be the roaches/cats of the cham world. There are reports of them living old with all kinds of 'unique' situations lol. But yes, as long as the water and ventilation is good, you should be fine

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

It’s actually pretty comical that she now enjoys the perks of beardie ownership and leaves cleanup duties all to you, despite the bearded dragon being yours! Her tortoise is absolutely precious, by the way! I’d love to see pics of him in his setup.

The only problem with that is that he's so tiny, pics have to be close-ups or you can't find/see him. Anything will be posted in the other thread.

 

[Breeannsmom]

I mist three or at the most 4 times a day, with warm water and by 5:30 pm I'm done with it. I do have acrylic sides on Brees enclosure which helps keep the humidity up. When I first mist the humidity reads about 60% and by the time I mist again , it has gone down to about 40%...it generally stays at 50% which she seems fine with.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I mist three or at the most 4 times a day, with warm water and by 5:30 pm I'm done with it. I do have acrylic sides on Brees enclosure which helps keep the humidity up. When I first mist the humidity reads about 60% and by the time I mist again , it has gone down to about 40%...it generally stays at 50% which she seems fine with.

I’d be thrilled to get a consistent 40%! You have a veiled cham, right? Fortunately, they can handle it it a tiny bit drier than panthers. Sounds like your girl is doing just fine at 40-50%

Can I ask where you got the acrylic sides? I’m in the process of replacing all the shrink film on my cham’s cage with corrugated plastic sheets. I.. didn’t plan for that and I already have dragon ledges installed, so I’m having to cut each sheet into smaller pieces to fit around the ledges.

I’m looking into getting a Tamura designs cage and hopefully do away with the low humidity issues entirely. Can’t come soon enough :/