Misting Schedule

[PetNcs]

Yes, I do understand. I am still adjusting to find the right level for my fogging length.

Perhaps you can answer for me. My natural humidity level at night is 65%-70% without fogging. Could it be that even though I have reduced my fogging time that due to my natural humidity level it effects the natural hydration? I suppose this is something that I have never understood completely because I think of fog and think that is how they have to get it. But could my higher natural humidity level still effect the urate form and color?

I explain gladly
The principal answer is YES

Now, how it works...
Same, as in many other questions, we simplify the problem to only one aspect of it, which is hydration. But the name of the game is actually water household. It means we should talk about the ways how to gain water and lose water in a way so that enough water for existential processes still stays inside of the body.

If we ignore for now defecation and urination is the process where water is lost and simplify the water household story into losses and gains caused by breathing we will get an interesting picture.

Water loss is facilitated By breatjing out the hundred percent moist air from the lungs into the surrounding air. The dryer the air the bigger the water loss the more humid air the less the water loss.

Water gain is happening through drinking and fog drinking while it seems more and more probable the most important mechanism is actually the fog drinking.

And here we go
Of course if your Ambient humidity is very high you need to compensate less water losses then in the case when the air humidity would be low and this is why your chameleon needs less fog to hydrate then a chameleon exposed to heavy water losses.

This is why we need to adjust accordingly based on our conditions at home and the desired conditions in the cage and not expect a Technological instruction on how many hours the fogger should be on and then be frustrated that there is no answer and accuse the author of the hydration method from inconsistency

 

[Beman]

I explain gladly
The principal answer is YES

Now, how it works...
Same, as in many other questions, we simplify the problem to only one aspect of it, which is hydration. But the name of the game is actually water household. It means we should talk about the ways how to gain water and lose water in a way so that enough water for existential processes still stays inside of the body.

If we ignore for now defecation and urination is the process where water is lost and simplify the water household story into losses and gains caused by breathing we will get an interesting picture.

Water loss is facilitated By breatjing out the hundred percent moist air from the lungs into the surrounding air. The dryer the air the bigger the water loss the more humid air the less the water loss.

Water gain is happening through drinking and fog drinking while it seems more and more probable the most important mechanism is actually the fog drinking.

And here we go
Of course if your Ambient humidity is very high you need to compensate less water losses then in the case when the air humidity would be low and this is why your chameleon needs less fog to hydrate then a chameleon exposed to heavy water losses.

This is why we need to adjust accordingly based on our conditions at home and the desired conditions in the cage and not expect a Technological instruction on how many hours the fogger should be on and then be frustrated that there is no answer and accuse the author of the hydration method from inconsistency

Thank you so much for this thorough explanation! I understand so much better now. I will adjust my fogging output/length based on this.

I suspected this was the case because I just got a new 3 month old Yemen a week ago. He is not hooked into my fogging system yet because his Dragon strand cage is coming the end of the month. But I have very carefully been monitoring his urates. They are very well formed and about 20- 30% orange with the rest being white. Looks like the images of what you said was ideal. I suspected it was due to my higher ambient night humidity levels.

 

[Kamikaze Chameleon]

I try to follow this table as close as i can

Source:
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-naturalistic-hydration/

 

[PetNcs]

View attachment 277163

I try to follow this table as close as i can

Source:
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-naturalistic-hydration/

It is a good one
The only thing I suggest radicallyndofferently is the basking loghts on NOT full day but only two times a say for sime half an hour. It imitates the natiral
Conditions better, as rhey do NOT bask during the daytime unless itnis after rain.

Consider also these climatic charts and caresheets

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Tell me what is contradictory?!

Petr, Do you understand what the word "apparent" means?
In the above context, it meant "seeming real or true, but not necessarily so."

I explained exactly what I found apparently self-contradictory.
If you show the color turquoise to a room full of people and ask them if it is blue or green, some will say blue, and some will say green; it's a matter of interpretation.

Just because someone interprets your words differently than you meant does not mean anything other than just that—they are interpreting your words differently than you meant, and perhaps do not understand what they perceive as an apparent conflict or contradiction.

NO SINGLE METHOD IS A RECEPT LIKE IF IT WAS A MACHINE. Chameleons are Living entities and they live in complex environment defined by many factors! It is not that you can het a recipe and take 5g of salt and 10g of glucose, you mix it and this is it.

It would have been very helpful if you had said something like that in the post I quoted, but I just reviewed the entire post again, and you did not. You spoke in absolutes as I quoted.

We are not mind-readers.

Have I ever said fogging is absolutely safe and you can fog as long as you want without any danger?!

You said,

Once the dew point is close to the temperature of the air during the night, the clouds automatically fall down and build fog that covers the entire environment and in that moment the air humidity is 100% and the Chamaeleon sits for hours and hours in very dense fog.
....
During whole year, use the following humidity regime with soft transitions:
Nighttime: 100%, fog

...and nothing about any qualifiers. If you meant,

Of course you can fog too little and you can fog
Too much!!! AND YOU CAN FOG WRONG WAY.
The main parameters you need to take into consideration is
Duration of fogging
Intensity of fogging
Ventilation level of the cage
Position of the animal
Size of the cage
Temperature
Species
Humidity in the cage and around
And others.

You need to adjust!

... then IMO you should have said so—or something similar—in the post, but you did not.

Again, we are not mind-readers. People are willing to—and want to—take you at your word, but very often, your words are confusing. That's why there are so many questions, so much discussion—and unfortunately—so much drama following some of your posts.

The fault is not the readers' for not understanding you. The responsibility is with the writer to communicate clearly and unambiguously, and not to take questions, challenges, observations or critiques as personal affronts or perceived offenses.

You need to Monitor the hydration level of the chameleon, which I consistently explain what it is and how you can assess it eg in my youtube channel and posts and then see whether it is OK, too little or too much!!!

For the vast majority of people on this site, keeping a chameleon is a hobby—not a profession as studying them is for yourself. These folks have lives, families, and interests apart from this pursuit. They look to you as an authority or expert. Even so, not everyone has the time or inclination to follow every single thing you post on every social media outlet you post on, or even every single post here, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to.

 

[Kamikaze Chameleon]

Oh those are nice but I have a panther so many of those dont apply and the one that does is in some other language ? as far as the basking im guna have to get another timer for his basking lamp!

 

[Beman]

Oh those are nice but I have a panther so many of those dont apply and the one that does is in some other language ? as far as the basking im guna have to get another timer for his basking lamp!

Here are his for your Panther. They are under the downloadable files section https://www.chameleons.info/en/furcifer-pardalis/

 

[PetNcs]

and nothing about any qualifiers. If you meant,

My goodness, I spoke
About WILD CONDITIONS

 

[PetNcs]

Petr, Do you understand what the word "apparent" means?
In the above context, it meant "seeming real or true, but not necessarily so."

I explained exactly what I found apparently self-contradictory.
If you show the color turquoise to a room full of people and ask them if it is blue or green, some will say blue, and some will say green; it's a matter of interpretation.

Just because someone interprets your words differently than you meant does not mean anything other than just that—they are interpreting your words differently than you meant, and perhaps do not understand what they perceive as an apparent conflict or contradiction.


It would have been very helpful if you had said something like that in the post I quoted, but I just reviewed the entire post again, and you did not. You spoke in absolutes as I quoted.

We are not mind-readers.



You said,

...and nothing about any qualifiers. If you meant,

... then IMO you should have said so—or something similar—in the post, but you did not.

Again, we are not mind-readers. People are willing to—and want to—take you at your word, but very often, your words are confusing. That's why there are so many questions, so much discussion—and unfortunately—so much drama following some of your posts.

The fault is not the readers' for not understanding you. The responsibility is with the writer to communicate clearly and unambiguously, and not to take questions, challenges, observations or critiques as personal affronts or perceived offenses.



For the vast majority of people on this site, keeping a chameleon is a hobby—not a profession as studying them is for yourself. These folks have lives, families, and interests apart from this pursuit. They look to you as an authority or expert. Even so, not everyone has the time or inclination to follow every single thing you post on every social media outlet you post on, or even every single post here, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to.

Well
I do not know what is the conclusion of it
I post
I explain more than any person on the web
I am one of the few axademics who really share all the reat just care for their science and papers
I piblished 9 books on chameleons and two areni. Final phase of their readiness for print

What more should I do?

I do not understand what younrequire

Should I always repeat
And repeat and repeat?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

My goodness, I spoke
About WILD CONDITIONS

In the section where you began with:

Please, do not overheat the Yemen Chameleons, it is one of the main reasons, why they do not reach high age in captivity.

...and from that point on, you were no longer talking about wild conditions; you were telling people how to keep them in captivity.

 

[Beman]

In the section where you began with:

...and from that point on, you were telling people how to keep them in captivity.

Why are you still arguing? You do not have a chameleon yet. Why would you not soak up every bit of info someone tries to share with you? He is a leader in this hobby. That comes with a certain level of respect that he should be given IMO.

I am so tired of the arguing and honestly tired of it totally derailing threads to the point that you have to weed through the BS to try to help the OP.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Why are you still arguing? You do not have a chameleon yet. Why would you not soak up every bit of info someone tries to share with you? He is a leader in this hobby. That comes with a certain level of respect that he should be given IMO.

I am so tired of the arguing and honestly tired of it totally derailing threads to the point that you have to weed through the BS to try to help the OP.

All the more reason I want to get things clear and unambiguous.

I began this with:

I don't wish to argue; I'm trying to make sense out of the apparent self-contradictions.

Petr chose to take that post as a personal affront, where there was none. I was trying to make sense of it, and explained.

I was taught that respect is very much like trust; it is earned—not bestowed or given—and also like trust, the person who earns it is the only one that can damage or lose it, and then it is much harder to regain.

 

[Beman]

All the more reason I want to get things clear and unambiguous.

I began this with:

Petr chose to take that post as a personal affront and insult, where there was none. I was trying to make sense of it, and explained.

I was taught that respect is very much like trust; it is earned—not bestowed or given—and also like trust, the person who earns it is the only one that can damage or lose it, and then it is much harder to regain.

well continuing on the back and forth does nothing except further derail a thread. If you want to speak to him further about it then take it to private message. That is what I did. And we had a much clearer understanding of one another. Y'all act like there isn't a language barrier. For him to be able to try to fully communicate his thoughts to English when it is not his first language is not easy. But he still tries. And honestly I want to learn from people who have experience and the willingness to share it with me.

I am done speaking about this as I too do not want to derail this thread any further then it already has been.

 

[PetNcs]

Oh those are nice but I have a panther so many of those dont apply and the one that does is in some other language ? as far as the basking im guna have to get another timer for his basking lamp!

Panther is not so substantially different
If you want to get some,
Go
To
My site

 

[PetNcs]

In the section where you began with:

...and from that point on, you were no longer talking about wild conditions; you were telling people how to keep them in captivity.

The reading comprehension is your issue
This text should be about captivity?! Are you serious? Intry always to make links to show the lohoc in what recommemd between the WILD and Captivity
And thisnoartnof rhe text everyone butnyiu onbioisly understands as commenting the WiLD comditions

Once the dew point is close to the temperature of the air during the night, the clouds automatically fall down and build fog that covers the entire environment and in that moment the air humidity is 100% and the Chamaeleon sits for hours and hours in very dense fog.

 

[PetNcs]

All the more reason I want to get things clear and unambiguous.

I began this with:

Petr chose to take that post as a personal affront, where there was none. I was trying to make sense of it, and explained.

I was taught that respect is very much like trust; it is earned—not bestowed or given—and also like trust, the person who earns it is the only one that can damage or lose it, and then it is much harder to regain.

I am tirednof the debate with younfrankly and will
Not continue it
I ammin the indistry fir 35 yeats and do not need to show my credentials to every newbie again and again.you have chosen your way of haining information, I do not cope with it, find another source then

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Petr, I wasn't even addressing you until you interjected with non-existent perceived sleights and went on the attack.

Do us both a favor and block me.

 

[PetNcs]

Petr, Do you understand what the word "apparent" means?
In the above context, it meant "seeming real or true, but not necessarily so."

I explained exactly what I found apparently self-contradictory.
If you show the color turquoise to a room full of people and ask them if it is blue or green, some will say blue, and some will say green; it's a matter of interpretation.

Just because someone interprets your words differently than you meant does not mean anything other than just that—they are interpreting your words differently than you meant, and perhaps do not understand what they perceive as an apparent conflict or contradiction.


It would have been very helpful if you had said something like that in the post I quoted, but I just reviewed the entire post again, and you did not. You spoke in absolutes as I quoted.

We are not mind-readers.



You said,

...and nothing about any qualifiers. If you meant,

... then IMO you should have said so—or something similar—in the post, but you did not.

Again, we are not mind-readers. People are willing to—and want to—take you at your word, but very often, your words are confusing. That's why there are so many questions, so much discussion—and unfortunately—so much drama following some of your posts.

The fault is not the readers' for not understanding you. The responsibility is with the writer to communicate clearly and unambiguously, and not to take questions, challenges, observations or critiques as personal affronts or perceived offenses.



For the vast majority of people on this site, keeping a chameleon is a hobby—not a profession as studying them is for yourself. These folks have lives, families, and interests apart from this pursuit. They look to you as an authority or expert. Even so, not everyone has the time or inclination to follow every single thing you post on every social media outlet you post on, or even every single post here, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to.

So, that is excellent
You gibe me advice what to write.
Ridiculous.
I am not writing a. Ook every time I post.
Please dl not read me any more.
Your requirements will not be met,
As they are not realistic

Find someone whomreads like you require and. Lock me please

 

[Weebo]

So, that is excellent
You gibe me advice what to write.
Ridiculous.
I am not writing a. Ook every time I post.
Please dl not read me any more.
Your requirements will not be met,
As they are not realistic

Find someone whomreads like you require and. Lock me please

You should consider changing your approach. Why are you attacking people for questioning a method of hydration? For years on hear people have raised chameleons completely opposite of how you’re suggesting. And like I’ve said to you before, I’m not saying you’re wrong. But you’re now telling people to do the opposite of what people have been doing on here for years. And you’re super aggressive and pretty rude to be honest. Maybe change your approach if your intent is to teach.