Monty has not moved all day.

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
For the past couple days, he has been sort of lethargic, but shows no symptoms of anything other than his pre-existing MBD. He basks and explores like normal, but has been refusing to eat more than 2-3 bugs per day. Today he refused to eat at all, remained his sleeping colors, and slept. All day.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, about 3 years old. Been in my care for 2 1/2 out of those three years, I assume.

Handling - I do not very often handle Monty. Not enough to be noted or to cause any changes in his behavior, anyway.

Feeding - I feed Monty dubia roaches, some mantids, superworms, SOMETIMES mealworms as a treat, and crickets. They are gutloaded sometimes with oranges, the dubias especially love the oranges. They are sometimes fed little slices of apple, purple cabbage, bug burger, and are given water cubes sometimes when I don't have oranges. Monty is given around 3 medium dubias, 1 superworm, and 3 crickets a day, IF he will take them. Recently this has declined to maybe 1-2 dubias and 1 superworm, but lately he has refused all food.

Supplements - zoomed repti calcium, with and without d3. Without d3 as often as I can, I don't overdust, just lightly on most of his feeders. With d3 is just one day out of every 2 weeks or so (twice a month).

Watering - I am using a mistking system that goes off for 2 and a half minutes every hour or so. The water is always clean and refilled when it runs out. The mist gathers on the branches and leaves, and he usually drinks a few drops or so, OR sticks his face in the mist and drinks for about a minute. He doesn't always drink/I don't always *see* him do it.

Fecal Description - Poops regularly, it's normal color. Urates white and poop is brown. Nothing gross to note. He has never been tested.

History - He has had MBD even since BEFORE my ownership of him, I would like to again note that.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen cage

Lighting - 5.0 or 10.0 tube UVB and two 60 watt lights. I think the light is a powersun for the UVB but the 60 watt basking lights are just two regular bulbs in a double dome

Temperature - Half the cage (heat dominated side): 90 deg at top, 70 at bottom. Other half (UVB dominated side): 80 at top, 68 at bottom (temp of house).

Humidity - Mistking system goes off every hour or so with a 2 and a half minute misting session, which puts him at around 80% humidity for 20 minutes or so and then he dries out.

Plants - I use two ficus as a free range, and then a schefflera (umbrella plant) inside his cage. It is slowly growing.

Placement - It is by a window, but that doesn't make a difference in my case. The blinds are usually closed. His cage is away from all vents and things. The top of the cage is around 7-8 feet where he usually basks.

Location - Southern CA

Current Problem - stated at top
 
Im so sorry your little man is having trouble. I don't have any experience with veileds, so im not going to try and diagnose his problem. I hope all is well.

Scott
 
It seems every winter these situations escalate. I don't think enough generations have been in captivity yet. I know it be cold in winter in Yemen, but still. I think the chameleons are still instinct and homeland dna driven. Just going to take many more years before they adapt. Mother nature doesn't give up the goods easily. Even the most professional of care can't always outwit her, even with CA and FL weather. Good luck. :)
 
Im so sorry your little man is having trouble. I don't have any experience with veileds, so im not going to try and diagnose his problem. I hope all is well.

Scott
Thanks for your support, it is much appreciated

It seems every winter these situations escalate. I don't think enough generations have been in captivity yet. I know it be cold in winter in Yemen, but still. I think the chameleons are still instinct and homeland dna driven. Just going to take many more years before they adapt. Mother nature doesn't give up the goods easily. Even the most professional of care can't always outwit her, even with CA and FL weather. Good luck. :)
Maybe it could be some sort of hibernation thing, but it never happened before. Hm.

I am just really concerned as he has never been in top-condition due to previous abuse
 
Thanks for your support, it is much appreciated


Maybe it could be some sort of hibernation thing, but it never happened before. Hm.

I am just really concerned as he has never been in top-condition due to previous abuse

You can only do so much with the dna (or current health) of the animal you have. You can't fix everything. I think you just had bad luck. Too much inbreeding and non dna broading at wholesalers. I know you treaure the jax, don't place blame at your feet. I got a pair of jax from CarlC that seem to be good specimens. I'll offer you the same deal as Sycosquirl, if something unfortunate befalls Monty. My girl is due to drop anyday now. I'll send you one for $0 if the unthinkable happens.
 
You can only do so much with the dna (or current health) of the animal you have. You can't fix everything. I think you just had bad luck. Too much inbreeding and non dna broading at wholesalers. I know you treaure the jax, don't place blame at your feet. I got a pair of jax from CarlC that seem to be good specimens. I'll offer you the same deal as Sycosquirl, if something unfortunate befalls Monty. My girl is due to drop anyday now. I'll send you one for $0 if the unthinkable happens.

Monty is actually my veiled, I got him around 3 years ago at a petsmart as a gift. He had MBD and was lethargic but that got taken care of. His MBD never went away. At the beginning, he would shake violently and grab himself. Now he doesn't do that anymore though, so that's better.

Brave was my Jacksons. I couldn't keep 2 chameleons at the time so I sold him and his cage for 50 dollars to a man who could keep him. Sadly I NEVER see any updates about Brave my jacksons baby. I kind of want him back. The new owner only posts about how drunk he is or about his bulldog.
 
Monty is actually my veiled, I got him around 3 years ago at a petsmart as a gift. He had MBD and was lethargic but that got taken care of. His MBD never went away. At the beginning, he would shake violently and grab himself. Now he doesn't do that anymore though, so that's better.

Brave was my Jacksons. I couldn't keep 2 chameleons at the time so I sold him and his cage for 50 dollars to a man who could keep him. Sadly I NEVER see any updates about Brave my jacksons baby. I kind of want him back. The new owner only posts about how drunk he is or about his bulldog.

I thought so, but too hard to go back on posts on phone. My veils are pippin' since last night. Offer still stands, if unfortunately needed.
 
Ok so I'm confused, do all chams go into some sort of hibernation then? I thought they didn't. My two bearded dragons are down and out for the winter and my frilled dragon is slower but not by much.
 
I will add my comments into you post in red. Ask any questions you may have. These are just things that you should look at.

QUOTE=SaintJimmy;1179981]For the past couple days, he has been sort of lethargic, but shows no symptoms of anything other than his pre-existing MBD. He basks and explores like normal, but has been refusing to eat more than 2-3 bugs per day. Today he refused to eat at all, remained his sleeping colors, and slept. All day.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, about 3 years old. Been in my care for 2 1/2 out of those three years, I assume.

Handling - I do not very often handle Monty. Not enough to be noted or to cause any changes in his behavior, anyway.How often is not too often?

Feeding - I feed Monty dubia roaches, some mantids, superworms, SOMETIMES mealworms as a treat, and crickets. They are gutloaded sometimes with oranges, the dubias especially love the oranges. They are sometimes fed little slices of apple, purple cabbage, bug burger, and are given water cubes sometimes when I don't have oranges. try to work on better gutloadingMonty is given around 3 medium dubias, 1 superworm, and 3 crickets a day, This is way to much food for his age. He should have 3 or 4 food items evert second dayIF he will take them. Recently this has declined to maybe 1-2 dubias and 1 superworm, but lately he has refused all food.

Supplements - zoomed repti calcium, with and without d3. Without d3 as often as I can, I don't overdust, just lightly on most of his feeders. With d3 is just one day out of every 2 weeks or so (twice a month).

Watering - I am using a mistking system that goes off for 2 and a half minutes every hour or so.That is a lot of water, my montanes don't get that much water. 2 long mistings are getter imho The water is always clean and refilled when it runs out. The mist gathers on the branches and leaves, and he usually drinks a few drops or so, OR sticks his face in the mist and drinks for about a minute. He doesn't always drink/I don't always *see* him do it.

Fecal Description - Poops regularly, it's normal color. Urates white and poop is brown. Nothing gross to note. He has never been tested.

History - He has had MBD even since BEFORE my ownership of him, I would like to again note that.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen cage

Lighting - 5.0 or 10.0 tube UVB and two 60 watt lights. I think the light is a powersun for the UVB but the 60 watt basking lights are just two regular bulbs in a double domeyou need to know if you are using a 5.0 or a 10.0 do you have a meter to check with? also 2 bulbs that are 60 seem pretty hot.

Temperature - Half the cage (heat dominated side): 90 deg at top, 70 at bottom. Other half (UVB dominated side): 80 at top, 68 at bottom (temp of house).

Humidity - Mistking system goes off every hour or so with a 2 and a half minute misting session, which puts him at around 80% humidity for 20 minutes or so and then he dries out.

Plants - I use two ficus as a free range, and then a schefflera (umbrella plant) inside his cage. It is slowly growing.How much time is monty away from his heat and uvb, that may have a large impact.

Placement - It is by a window, but that doesn't make a difference in my case. The blinds are usually closed. His cage is away from all vents and things. The top of the cage is around 7-8 feet where he usually basks.

Location - Southern CA

Current Problem - stated at top[/QUOTE]
 
Laurie, it is a 5.0

"Not too often" is around 1-2 times every 2 weeks. Maybe 1 time a week if necessary to check on him.

Also sorry about my gutloading. If this is better to read:

I use oranges, bug burger, cucumber, purple cabbage, apple. Ones I forgot to add was pomegranate and pumpkin. These are only a couple times a month though.

I had no idea this was too much food for him. I just give him as much as he will eat since he doesn't ever eat much.

Also I am gone half the time, and my father reports him NOT eating very much maybe 1 feeder a day MAX.

I have a temperature gun, the two bulbs only go up to 90 degrees. They are at least 1 and a half feet from his basking spot.

Usually he moves from one side of the cage to the other pretty evenly throughout the day. He will spend maybe 10 minutes basking, then 10 minutes walking outside his cage, around his cage. Then he goes right back to basking usually.
 
Hi SJ, sorry to hear your veiled is acting so strange :(

Your husbandry sounds fine, but a few things;

Some ppl will not agree with this, but those laser temp guns are less then
ideal for measuring basking temps because they only measure absorbed
energy from solid material, not the surrounding air.

If I were you, I would check that basking temp with a good digital therm with
a probe.
During the winter where I am, the temps go down slightly in the cham cages.
I often have to bump up the lamp wattage.

Also, do you have a Solarmeter?
Your UVB may be going (or you have a bad bulb)!!

My veiled's handle the winter better then the other's, and it gets pretty cold
here in MD. I still dread winter.

Since his poop looks normal, and he is drinking, I would suspect either he is
too cold, or not getting enough UVB, but I'm no vet.

Anyway, I hope you have a nice Christmas holiday :)
 
To touch on what crazybunny said: if they are used to certain temps, it can take a while to adjust. If it is truly cold, then their metabolism will slow for sure. When acclimating hatchlings to outside temps, I spend about 4 weeks during that 2-3rd month adjusting their temps. I raise it about 2°f every 4-5 days until they can safely be outside. Sometimes it may take even longer. Maybe try a little $20 electric space heater from Walmart to heat the specific room. Just remember, it will dry out the air, also. I have hardwood floors, so I do notice a slight slowdown from Dec-Feb. Nature 101. :)
 
Hi SJ, sorry to hear your veiled is acting so strange :(

Your husbandry sounds fine, but a few things;

Some ppl will not agree with this, but those laser temp guns are less then
ideal for measuring basking temps because they only measure absorbed
energy from solid material, not the surrounding air.

If I were you, I would check that basking temp with a good digital therm with
a probe.
During the winter where I am, the temps go down slightly in the cham cages.
I often have to bump up the lamp wattage.

Also, do you have a Solarmeter?
Your UVB may be going (or you have a bad bulb)!!

My veiled's handle the winter better then the other's, and it gets pretty cold
here in MD. I still dread winter.

Since his poop looks normal, and he is drinking, I would suspect either he is
too cold, or not getting enough UVB, but I'm no vet.

Anyway, I hope you have a nice Christmas holiday :)

I have to get one of the digital temp measurers then. I will see.

The UVB is about a year old now. I will replace it when I go to the reptile show on Jan 10.

To touch on what crazybunny said: if they are used to certain temps, it can take a while to adjust. If it is truly cold, then their metabolism will slow for sure. When acclimating hatchlings to outside temps, I spend about 4 weeks during that 2-3rd month adjusting their temps. I raise it about 2°f every 4-5 days until they can safely be outside. Sometimes it may take even longer. Maybe try a little $20 electric space heater from Walmart to heat the specific room. Just remember, it will dry out the air, also. I have hardwood floors, so I do notice a slight slowdown from Dec-Feb. Nature 101. :)

It is certainly only a few degrees colder in the house, and he has his basking spot to bask in, so I don't know what's up with him. The ambient temps are still the same according to the gun
 
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