My baby chameleon died

[Tmckinnis]

I only had my chameleon for 10 days and was active and eating and drinking. (I witneseed this several times as I could stop staring at her sometimes I went in to turn on her light's one morning and she didn't perk up as quickly as normal. In fact she was on the ground of the habitat so I gave her a little nudge a few times and she still didn't wake up and even almost fell over to her side with my final nudge. She finally opened her eyes and moved around so I thought maybe it was from her being a little cold. Before I left for work she was on the wall looking good and even saw her dart her tongue out to catch a cricket but missed. I let her be and when I came to check on her at bed time she was on her back on the bottom of the habitat dead and turning black. My boys who have lizards and snakes are confused as to what I did wrong or if she was just sick when I bought her. Any ideas?

 

[Rogue]

My first initial impression just from the picture, she looks seriously dehydrated.

 

[Tmckinnis]

My first initial impression just from the picture, she looks seriously dehydrated.

How can you tell? This picture was from when I first got her and was taking her out of the container she came home in and putting her in her new habitat.

 

[Rogue]

How can you tell? This picture was from when I first got her and was taking her out of the container she came home in and putting her in her new habitat.

I could be wrong. From that angle of the picture, her eyes look a bit sunk in but it could just be the angle. I am so sorry for your loss I understand that heartbreak. How was she kept, fed, misted, etc.? We might be able to help you find out what happened, or at least narrow it down to a few issues. Members request you answer these questions to assist. Safe travels over the rainbow bridge, dear one.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[Graves923]

Can you fill out the form found in this thread? It will give us a better picture of your husbandry and possible issues.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

EDIT: I see Rogue beat me to it lol

 

[Zephalia]

Extremely thin and sickly looking from the day you got her. This could have been from improper care before you got her, parasites or other health issues which you will likely never know about. I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@Tmckinnis I'm very sorry you are going through this. It's hard to lose a baby so unexpectedly.

Let me start with this--no one on this forum can tell you what went happened. An experienced vet/pathologist doing a necropsy probably couldn't give you a good answer.

Single photographs, especially of veiled chameleons, do not give the whole picture. I find babies, and veileds in particular both adults and babies, to be skilled shape shifters. One minute they look emaciated and the next are fat as butter and look to be in terrific condition. Baby veileds are even more extreme than adults in this shape shifting ability. I find healthy veiled babies to look very skinny to me when I am sure they are not.

Sunken eyes, while a symptom of extreme dehydration, are also symptoms of other things like pain or disease. Many chameleons, especially older males, seem to pull their eyes in when you try to take a picture of them. I have many pictures of beautiful males in pristine condition that I cannot post on the internet because they have pulled their eyes in and that makes them look unwell. From your one grainy picture I can't tell if those eyes are sunken in or not.

The ability to look at a chameleon and gauge it's condition is a skill that takes time to develop. It is not something you can develop from reading words. I almost think it is an art. You need to see a lot of animals over time to develop it. Dehydration is not just about white urates and sunken eyes.

That said I'll offer you a few of my thoughts and hopefully you can find some peace.

Babies are just plain hard for novices to keep alive and do well with. There is no room for error with babies. They are a very poor choice for a novice chameleon keeper. Learn on a well established juvenile from a reputable breeder. You would never have known that especially since your children have been successful with reptiles. The salesperson at the pet shop certainly wouldn't tell you and might not even know anything at all about keeping chameleons. How could a novice possibly know that? They can't. Many on the forum spend a tremendous amount of time trying to learn about keeping chameleons before they get one. It doesn't always help as they often make the same mistakes as the impulse buyer does.

Forgive yourself any errors you might have made in your husbandry. Chamleon keeping is a learning experience--not very many people get it right the first time, even zoos. I'm an experienced chameleon keeper yet I have a learning curve when I start keeping a new species. I learn all the time. Babies are just plain tough for novices.

Dehydration is a major problem with captive chameleons and babies in particular. Most breeders raise their babies in big solid plastic tubs in order to keep the humidity in the air up. My own babies have a fogger spilling a misty cloud into their tub 24 hours a day. Small babies dehydrate very easily. The fact you saw your baby drinking suggests the ambient humidity was much too low. I almost never see my chameleons--adults or babies--drink. If I do, I am on alert as to why because a drinking chameleon signals to me that something is wrong. Pet keepers underestimate just how humid the climate is where these animals evolved and do not keep the air anywhere near humid enough.

Kidney failure is the end result of chronic or acute dehydration. A single episode of severe dehydration can set an animal up for kidney failure. Things happen to animals before we buy them that affects their long term health.

Your baby might have been sick before you bought her from any number of diseases or conditions. Even the nutritional status of the mother plays a huge role in a baby's survival. You will never know.

I know it is very hard for you, a new comer to Chameleon Forum, to be able to weed out the experienced keepers from the novices but be careful of whose advice you take. I notice that one person who responded to your thread has had chameleons for less time than you had your little baby. That person should not be offering any advice.

I hope you don't give up on chameleon keeping. If you decide to keep chameleons, I suggest you start a new thread to help you decide what you really want and how to supply the animal you get with all it needs. Many novices start with veiled chameleons but I personally think they are a poor choice for a novice. They are so cheap, wholesaling for $8 apiece, that they are very unhealthy right at hatch. There are other species that are very easy to keep. Some panthers are in the same boat as veiled, being raised by people who are not giving them the care they need from before conception to sale. The species I breed are incredibly hardy and a great novice chameleon as long as the novice can set them up right so don't rule out some of the rarer species. Avoid a wild caught, which means avoiding Jacksons.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.

 

[Rogue]

I hope you find solace and peace. It can be so difficult. I spent months and months of reading, researching, learning, and even printed all care sheets from this site into a notebook for easier reference. My advice is based off what I have read from the established and experienced members (those with at least 10 years under their belt) here as well as moderators and multiple veterinarians. It will always be a learning experience as no one ever knows everything there is to know about chameleon care. We learn, we grow, we become better parents to these wonderful animals

The only advice I offered was to fill out the recommended questions in the sticky, but are you considering having her looked at to determine the cause of her passing?

 

[ChamLB]

If you do decide to try keeping another chameleon you might want to start by reading the Care Sheet for the species you want and the rest of the resource pages for the general information on chameleons. Pet store employees handle too many kinds of pets to know enough about all of them.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

 

[Rogue]

If you do decide to try keeping another chameleon you might want to start by reading the Care Sheet for the species you want and the rest of the resource pages for the general information on chameleons. Pet store employees handle too many kinds of pets to know enough about all of them.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

These care sheets are wonderful. I have an entire binder of printed care sheets, studies, veterinarian suggestions for husbandry, different illnesses, and so on that I started creating earlier this year. They are very helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Jajeannelapierre said.."Let me start with this--no one on this forum can tell you what went happened. An experienced vet/pathologist doing a necropsy probably couldn't give you a good answer"...she is absolutely right.

So sorry for your loss but don't let it stop you from getting another onebut make sure your husbandry will be good and that you get an older chameleon from a reputable source. Again...so sorry..I'm sure it's heartbreaking.

 

[Franquixote]

If you can find someone to do a necropsy, do it- a local vet or even a biologist at your local state agricultural extension -all states have biologists out there serving the public mostly for lawn care issues but could probably help r direct you to help. That'd be my first impulse unless you've buried or otherwise given the little one his "last rites".

If yo are going to try again with another animal take a moment to note as much as you can about the history of the last 2 weeks- everything about enclosure, what he ate, etc. See if you notice anything odd

***If you don't have some basic tools like a thermometer gun and humidistat, consider getting them. Most of these things are under $10 each and can give you data to work with like the average humidity and how hot his basking spot was.

The tail on the chameleon looks like it had very little fat reserves and was dehydrated.

What other data can you share? average temp etc.? Was he dark in color a lot of the time? Live plants in there? Misting system?

How much did it eat a day? What was its diet?

Don't give up, but try and figure out what happened and collect as much data a you can. Like the people above said who know much more than I about chameleons, babies are by their very nature delicate and also remember that nature sees to it that MOST babies die- especially in species that lay clutches of dozens of eggs. Could be something like a genetic anomaly that caused organ failure as he grew a little.

I'm sorry your chameleon died. I have a 3 month old baby panther and even though I am trying my best and he looks great right now I'm constantly worried because there are so many things that can go wrong- so I feel your heartbreak on this.
Most on this forum are patient and kind and I hope you try again and ask questions.

 

[Carlton]

@Tmckinnis I'm very sorry you are going through this. It's hard to lose a baby so unexpectedly.

Let me start with this--no one on this forum can tell you what went happened. An experienced vet/pathologist doing a necropsy probably couldn't give you a good answer.

Single photographs, especially of veiled chameleons, do not give the whole picture. I find babies, and veileds in particular both adults and babies, to be skilled shape shifters. One minute they look emaciated and the next are fat as butter and look to be in terrific condition. Baby veileds are even more extreme than adults in this shape shifting ability. I find healthy veiled babies to look very skinny to me when I am sure they are not.

Sunken eyes, while a symptom of extreme dehydration, are also symptoms of other things like pain or disease. Many chameleons, especially older males, seem to pull their eyes in when you try to take a picture of them. I have many pictures of beautiful males in pristine condition that I cannot post on the internet because they have pulled their eyes in and that makes them look unwell. From your one grainy picture I can't tell if those eyes are sunken in or not.

The ability to look at a chameleon and gauge it's condition is a skill that takes time to develop. It is not something you can develop from reading words. I almost think it is an art. You need to see a lot of animals over time to develop it. Dehydration is not just about white urates and sunken eyes.

That said I'll offer you a few of my thoughts and hopefully you can find some peace.

Babies are just plain hard for novices to keep alive and do well with. There is no room for error with babies. They are a very poor choice for a novice chameleon keeper. Learn on a well established juvenile from a reputable breeder. You would never have known that especially since your children have been successful with reptiles. The salesperson at the pet shop certainly wouldn't tell you and might not even know anything at all about keeping chameleons. How could a novice possibly know that? They can't. Many on the forum spend a tremendous amount of time trying to learn about keeping chameleons before they get one. It doesn't always help as they often make the same mistakes as the impulse buyer does.

Forgive yourself any errors you might have made in your husbandry. Chamleon keeping is a learning experience--not very many people get it right the first time, even zoos. I'm an experienced chameleon keeper yet I have a learning curve when I start keeping a new species. I learn all the time. Babies are just plain tough for novices.

Dehydration is a major problem with captive chameleons and babies in particular. Most breeders raise their babies in big solid plastic tubs in order to keep the humidity in the air up. My own babies have a fogger spilling a misty cloud into their tub 24 hours a day. Small babies dehydrate very easily. The fact you saw your baby drinking suggests the ambient humidity was much too low. I almost never see my chameleons--adults or babies--drink. If I do, I am on alert as to why because a drinking chameleon signals to me that something is wrong. Pet keepers underestimate just how humid the climate is where these animals evolved and do not keep the air anywhere near humid enough.

Kidney failure is the end result of chronic or acute dehydration. A single episode of severe dehydration can set an animal up for kidney failure. Things happen to animals before we buy them that affects their long term health.

Your baby might have been sick before you bought her from any number of diseases or conditions. Even the nutritional status of the mother plays a huge role in a baby's survival. You will never know.

I know it is very hard for you, a new comer to Chameleon Forum, to be able to weed out the experienced keepers from the novices but be careful of whose advice you take. I notice that one person who responded to your thread has had chameleons for less time than you had your little baby. That person should not be offering any advice.

I hope you don't give up on chameleon keeping. If you decide to keep chameleons, I suggest you start a new thread to help you decide what you really want and how to supply the animal you get with all it needs. Many novices start with veiled chameleons but I personally think they are a poor choice for a novice. They are so cheap, wholesaling for $8 apiece, that they are very unhealthy right at hatch. There are other species that are very easy to keep. Some panthers are in the same boat as veiled, being raised by people who are not giving them the care they need from before conception to sale. The species I breed are incredibly hardy and a great novice chameleon as long as the novice can set them up right so don't rule out some of the rarer species. Avoid a wild caught, which means avoiding Jacksons.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.

With respect to jajeanpierre's great information, we can speculate (not firmly diagnose) from looking at one single photo that your baby was in pretty poor condition overall. Not just because its eyes were sunken, but also considering how concave its casque appears. Yes, juveniles are shape-shifters, but IMHO that, in addition to who knows how much stress of a new home, recent shipping, and probably poor care before you bought it, contributed a lot to its death.