My baby vieled chameleon wont eat or drink...

[aghost]

Hello!

This is my first post on any chameleon community so i hope everything makes sense.

Before i get started:
We didn't expect to get a chameleon, since we got him from a guy that took him from his homeland but didn't want to give him proper care (i know, friggin asshole). So we have just been trying to get the right information from the internet, but i'm pretty sure he haven't been living in optimal conditions since we got him. But we are not giving up on this little guy, so we need your help.



About my chameleon:
I think he's a male since he got spurs on his back feet. Age about 3-4 weeks old. Been in our care for about 2 weeks. We try not to handle him at all since we think he's really stressed and handling him probably wont make that better. But we have had to force feed him a couple of time since he is not eating, we havent seen proof of him eating by himself once since we got him around 2 weeks ago. Currently we have a small box of live worms at the bottom of the tank, should be fully accessible for our chameleon. And i haven't seen any poo yet either (last second edit: he made a big poo! Included in pic below)... For food we are using worms around 2cm long, when we force feed him they're dusted with Repptivite with D3-vitamins. We have only done that two times so far. But he freaks out when we do that, poor little guy...




We have a dripper as a water source and i recently learned that you need to mist the cage for around 5 minutes, today i saw him go hide but when around 4 minutes in to the misting he came out again, so i believe thats a good sign? I'm using a regular water spray bottle with the finest mist option possible. Haven't seen him using the dripper to drink though. As mentioned, we didn't expect getting a baby veiled chameleon so mistakes have been made. He's had to change environment alot and probably handled a bit too much before he finally ended up at our office. We decided to take turn to take care for him during weekends.


Cage info:
Cage type is probably an old aquarium of glass, no roof, dimensions 30 x 50 x 30 cm (we are looking for a better option). For lighting we use a bulb with the brand Trixie and the info on the bulb: CS004 MAX 250W, AC220-240v 50/60Hz. And for temperature, basking spot, ~26 celsius, floor ~22celsius. Lowest overnite i would guess ~18-20 celsius. I'm sorry I have no idea about the humidity. Plants unsure, some co-workers picked them outside, Included in the pictures. The cage is located in my office, not so trafficated but sometimes people come in to look at him, we tell them to not scare him. Geographically he is located in south of sweden.




Main problem:
He is not eating on his own... He almoste seems to be scared of the worms. Sometimes he stands and look down on them for a long time. But never eats them. Would like to hear what you guys think should be the best solution to this problem.

Very thankful for any help!

Let me know if there are any more info i should add

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."But we have had to force feed him a couple of time since he is not eating, we havent seen proof of him eating by himself once"..
How do you know he isn't eating? Have you counted the worms? Why aren't you feeding it crickets? What kind of worms are they?

You said.."Cage type is probably an old aquarium of glass, no roof, dimensions 30 x 50 x 30 cm (we are looking for a better option)"...definitely you will need a better cage soon.

You said..." For lighting we use a bulb with the brand Trixie and the info on the bulb: CS004 MAX 250W, AC220-240v 50/60Hz"...I have no idea what that bulb is but for basking I use a regular white household incandescent bulb of a wattage that produces the proper basking temperature. You need a proper UVB light bulb too. They need UVB to produce the D3 they need to use the calcium in their system.

You said..."Plants unsure, some co-workers picked them outside, Included in the pictures"...plants need to be non toxic and well washed both sides of the leaves.

Make sure you feed and gutload your insects well. For crickets, superworms, roaches, locusts I use greens, veggies, and a bit of fruit... dandelion greens, make, collards, endive, escarole, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, berries, apples, pears, and melon, etc.

Supplementing is important too...I dust at almost every feeding with a phosphorus-free calcium powder to help make up for the usually poor ratio of phosphorus to calcium found in most feeder insects.

I dust twice a month with a phosphorus-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from it's exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues while D3 from exposure to the UVB light won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will.

I also use twice a month, a vitamin powder with a beta carotene proFormed source of vitamin A (no D3). PrOformed sources of vitamin A won't build up in the system like prEformed sources will so it's safe....but it leaves it up to you to decide when/if your chameleon needs prEformed vitamin A.

Hydration can be provided by a misting system and a dripper...both. don't mist directly into the chameleon's mouth...you don't want it to aspirate the water.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion and thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Really well washed non toxic plants are recommended for veileds in particular since they eat vegetation. They also eat the substrate (intentionally and accidentally) and soil from plant pots so be aware not to use anything that can lead to an impaction.

I've likely missed things...but hopefully you'll read enough from this site in particular to cover what I missed!

 

[DarinD]

@kinyonga mentioned most everything important. First order of business should be varying up his diet with gutloaded feeders and implementing the supplementation schedule. Next is getting him in a proper vertical enclosure with a heat bulb of the proper wattage and a UVB bulb. Live, non-toxic plants assist in maintaining humidity and the chameleon will likely drink off the leaves. Humidity and temperature need to be monitored, especially in the basking spot. These fixes should acclimate him better and you'll find him less stressed out.

 

[aghost]

You said..."But we have had to force feed him a couple of time since he is not eating, we havent seen proof of him eating by himself once"..
How do you know he isn't eating? Have you counted the worms? Why aren't you feeding it crickets? What kind of worms are they?

You said.."Cage type is probably an old aquarium of glass, no roof, dimensions 30 x 50 x 30 cm (we are looking for a better option)"...definitely you will need a better cage soon.

You said..." For lighting we use a bulb with the brand Trixie and the info on the bulb: CS004 MAX 250W, AC220-240v 50/60Hz"...I have no idea what that bulb is but for basking I use a regular white household incandescent bulb of a wattage that produces the proper basking temperature. You need a proper UVB light bulb too. They need UVB to produce the D3 they need to use the calcium in their system.

You said..."Plants unsure, some co-workers picked them outside, Included in the pictures"...plants need to be non toxic and well washed both sides of the leaves.

Make sure you feed and gutload your insects well. For crickets, superworms, roaches, locusts I use greens, veggies, and a bit of fruit... dandelion greens, make, collards, endive, escarole, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, berries, apples, pears, and melon, etc.

Supplementing is important too...I dust at almost every feeding with a phosphorus-free calcium powder to help make up for the usually poor ratio of phosphorus to calcium found in most feeder insects.

I dust twice a month with a phosphorus-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from it's exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues while D3 from exposure to the UVB light won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will.

I also use twice a month, a vitamin powder with a beta carotene proFormed source of vitamin A (no D3). PrOformed sources of vitamin A won't build up in the system like prEformed sources will so it's safe....but it leaves it up to you to decide when/if your chameleon needs prEformed vitamin A.

Hydration can be provided by a misting system and a dripper...both. don't mist directly into the chameleon's mouth...you don't want it to aspirate the water.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion and thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Really well washed non toxic plants are recommended for veileds in particular since they eat vegetation. They also eat the substrate (intentionally and accidentally) and soil from plant pots so be aware not to use anything that can lead to an impaction.

I've likely missed things...but hopefully you'll read enough from this site in particular to cover what I missed!

I just saw him at the bottom of his cage, headbutting his reflection ( Guess i most definitely need to find him better cage asap

Yes we have counted the worms, thats how we are pretty sure he haven't eaten. We only have dead crickets at the moment but they seem too big and he didn't like them. Not sure if they are superworms or mealworms.
Added picture of them instead, we are currently gut loading with pear as you can see.
Any idea of roughly how many of these he should be eating a day if he was healthy?


I didn't purchase the bulb, but i've heard it's what it need in terms of UV and heat. But i will find out more if we need more lamps.

Will definitely give him a ficus today instead of those old branches...

Ok so dusting only needed around twice a month with the D3 stuff? good to know.. Then i will get some calcium and vitamin a powder too.

Thank you so much

 

[Graves923]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

I suggest reading through the articles in the link I posted. Proper husbandry eliminates alot of the guess work when it comes to identifying possible issues.

 

[Pennychameleon]

Hey! I was in a similar position and got one on impulse from a pet shop with all the wrong info btw. They got me to sign forms to say if it died etc no responsibility... So anyhow bought all the stuff including tall tank d3 uvb lamp/bulb and it looked ill as it had just been fed on wax worms, so I bought micro crickets and placed the whole tub in enclosure little Cham saw the kitchen and was fine on visiting intervals, found that he needs a good spray of water quite often though not direct, he's happy now and very friendly these are amazing gorgeous creatures

 

[kinyonga]

Are you sure he's trying to head butt his reflection??? Is his mouth open when he's doing it?? One hand held under his chin? Rocking back and forth? Betting he's just trying to get out.

You said..."I didn't purchase the bulb, but i've heard it's what it need in terms of UV and heat. But i will find out more if we need more lamps"... well ...don't wait too long to figure it out or you'll have a chameleon with MBD....and that won't be good.

IMHO you should never feed a chameleon dead insects. I do not use mealworms at all for my reptiles'....there are much better options...silkworms, superworms, crickets, roaches, black soldier fly larva, hornworms, etc.
For feeding one that young I feed it as many appropriately sized crickets, etc as it can eat in a couple of minutes and then leave a couple in the cage for a snack later. I would give it at least 10 appropriately sized crickets per feeding or an equal amount/mass of other insects.

 

[aghost]

Hey! I was in a similar position and got one on impulse from a pet shop with all the wrong info btw. They got me to sign forms to say if it died etc no responsibility... So anyhow bought all the stuff including tall tank d3 uvb lamp/bulb and it looked ill as it had just been fed on wax worms, so I bought micro crickets and placed the whole tub in enclosure little Cham saw the kitchen and was fine on visiting intervals, found that he needs a good spray of water quite often though not direct, he's happy now and very friendly these are amazing gorgeous creatures

It's alot to take in when you don't have an idea how to take care of them beforehand! I guess he don't like worms at all, i've been looking for small crickets but they don't seem to sell any in my area, guess i will have to order from the internet. Yes i notice he's been alot better after spraying the tank properly a few times a day They are really fascinating, too bad with the circumstances at work...

 

[aghost]

Are you sure he's trying to head butt his reflection??? Is his mouth open when he's doing it?? One hand held under his chin? Rocking back and forth? Betting he's just trying to get out.

You said..."I didn't purchase the bulb, but i've heard it's what it need in terms of UV and heat. But i will find out more if we need more lamps"... well ...don't wait too long to figure it out or you'll have a chameleon with MBD....and that won't be good.

IMHO you should never feed a chameleon dead insects. I do not use mealworms at all for my reptiles'....there are much better options...silkworms, superworms, crickets, roaches, black soldier fly larva, hornworms, etc.
For feeding one that young I feed it as many appropriately sized crickets, etc as it can eat in a couple of minutes and then leave a couple in the cage for a snack later. I would give it at least 10 appropriately sized crickets per feeding or an equal amount/mass of other insects.

No mouth open, he was scratching a bit, turned really dark. Maybe he was trying to get out, the tank is a bit small. But he seemed to calm down pretty fast when i put him back on a branch. Yes i will just have to get him other food. Thanks

 

[kinyonga]

Sounds like he's just trying to get out. They don't seem to understand glass is a barrier very well.