my cham has MBD!!

peetreetheveiledcham

peetreetheveiledcham

New Member
How can I stop my chams mbd from getting worse!!! His 2 front legs r bent already I've been giving him calcium and d3 nd plenty of water but I dnt know if its working wat can I do to stop it! Where I live there are no vets tht care for reptiles the closes one is a 2 hour drive, Alabama is the worst place to live if u have a reptile. Can anyone help me! Plz!! how can I stop it!!!
 
Hi, I'm sorry your chameleon is not well.

Calcium is the big issue here...but you do need to watch the D3, too much causes other problems. But, you need some...I would think calcium without D3 daily, D3 once a week for a bit, working out to twice a month.

The biggest thing is UVB....what is your lighting situation? Is it warm enough to put him outside for a few hours a day? If you can do that, it would be very helpful. If not, you need a good UVB bulb.

You should get liquid calcium that you can give your chameleon. You might need to use a syringe without a needle to do that, if you can't find one, check into baby tylenol type products, they are often inexpensive and packaged with a little syringe for administering the drug.
 
Elizadolots said:
Hi, I'm sorry your chameleon is not well.

Calcium is the big issue here...but you do need to watch the D3, too much causes other problems. But, you need some...I would think calcium without D3 daily, D3 once a week for a bit, working out to twice a month.

The biggest thing is UVB....what is your lighting situation? Is it warm enough to put him outside for a few hours a day? If you can do that, it would be very helpful. If not, you need a good UVB bulb.

You should get liquid calcium that you can give your chameleon. You might need to use a syringe without a needle to do that, if you can't find one, check into baby tylenol type products, they are often inexpensive and packaged with a little syringe for administering the drug.
Click to expand...



You can actually go to any pharmacy and ask for a baby dropper or syringe and they will give it to you for free.
 
sorry to hear your chameleon is ill. Did you acquire him with MBD or did it happen in your care? If in your care, we need to know some things about your set up and find out what went wrong. Please go the green forums tab, then the health clinic section and to the "how to ask for help" form.
 
Here is the form, pictures would be really helpful, I've looked at your previous photos and see no signs of MBD..........


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful
 
thanks for the replies, he has a tropical 25? Uvb its a zilla bulb ill get more details when I get home and look at the box, and the pictures were taken 1 month ago, his mbd just popped out of no where!! Its been 3days since I saw he was showing signs of MBD and his 2 front legs are bowlegged already=(, do I need a stronger UVB light?

2012-03-11_16-57-34_785.jpg

2012-03-11_17-00-04_347.jpg
 
the front legs look to be showing signs of mbd already in those pictures. How often do you replace your bulbs? It is recommended they be replaced every six months.
 
I'm sorry to say this, but MDB does not come from nowhere. It takes a relatively long time to develop. Something is wrong with your setup or your supplementation, and has been wrong for quite awhile. Please fill out the full care sheet, and pictures of your enclosure might help too.

I understand your situation with the vet. However, with a case like this I think it might be worth going to the vet and getting a blood sample tested for calcium. Even if the vet doesn't know how to help, if you post the calcium levels then we may be able to help you diagnose just how much extra calcium he needs.
 
I understand your situation with finding a vet. I work at a veterinary clinic, we are the only clinic in the area that will even look at exotics... and even we do not have lots of experience with them. I rescued a female veiled with sighns of sever MBD a little over a year ago. It was A LOT of work and the Doctors I work for were a huge help in re-habiliting her. Calcium injections were given... I did lots of research, even contacted a veterinary teaching hospital and spoke with their specialized exotics vet... If you could find a Vet that would be willing to help you, even though they do not put themselves out there as 'experts' you would certanly be at an advantage. ''Georgia'' and I are living proof it is possible to stop the progression of MBD but it will take effort and money to do so. NOTE: If finances are a concern I would recomend blood work over radiographs(x-rays) the photographs obvoiusly show advanced stages of bone de-calicifaction(which is what the x-rays would just confirm) the blood results would show to what degree and determine what to use to supplemnt.. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Yes Zilla also sells the Tropical UVB in the corkscrew type bulb. I don't have any experience with this type bulb. I use the reptisun 5.0 and the reptiglow 5.0.
 
The quickest way to stop the MBD from progressing is to take the chameleon to a vet and get calcium injections over a period of time until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give the chameleon a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the blood. Any vet should be able to do this even if s/he has to consult with another vet to get information about how much calcium, etc.

If you can't do that, the next best thing IMHO is to get some liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate from a pharmacy and a needleless syringe. This type of calcium is supposed to be more readily absorbed.

Its important to correct things as soon as possible because MBD not only affects the bones but other systems in the chameleon...and the longer its let go the more permanent damage will likely occur. (The bone deformities will remain regardless.)

You also need to make the appropriate changes to your husbandry to bring the calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A back into line...along with providing proper UVB (that does not pass through glass or plastic) and even gutloading/feeding your insects properly. Imbalances in the 4 minerals/vitamins I mentioned can push the chameleon towards MBD. So can constant overfeeding.

Here's some information I hope will help you with supplementing, etc.....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
Thank you guys for the help=) 2morrow im going to the pharmacy and getting wat I need to help him and also this weekend I might drive to the nearest vet for chams which is almost a 2 hour drive, if u wanna see vids of my cham and his progress check me out on youtube @1966ReptiDude, ill be posting vids of him as he gets better:D
 
I want to mention that getting him outside (as you do in the video) is a great thing. It's one of the easiest, least expensive things you can do that will help him, so that's great. Do be careful though because predator birds can try to snatch him.

He's getting around very well. I think you'll have good results treating him. Those broken front legs in the picture don't really convey how able he is at the moment. He needs help, but he's not as bad as I suspect some might think.
 
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