My chameleon is grabbing his own legs, what does this mean?

whereswaldo said:
im supposed to be getting out the dead ones how the heck im going to do that with the live ones in there? im new to ordering online but i just got bug burger its good stuff then? i wontt need to offer the dry flukers and the yellow water plus cal?
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This is what works for me.

I have a 30g rubbermaid bin for my crickets. I 1/2 open the lid and knock all the waste and dead crickets to the bottom. Then put the lid fully back on and tilt the whole bin and all the waste and dead crix would fall to one end. I then move all the egg creats to the other end and flick away the alive crickets mixed in and then just use a wet paper towel to pick up the waste adn dead crickets. Worked great!! i'll see if i can make a quick video when i get home for you.

The Bug Burger is GREATTTT!!
 
MyChameleonIsBro said:
I've looked around at different products like Mineral O and Repashy. I'm sold on this link you provided because 1. the description of it and 2. that's the same website I got my chameleon from.
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Yea, The Kammer's are good people! Who is his sire? He looks good and would bet he still has a ton of color to put on.
 
MyChameleonIsBro said:
I'm about to order it right now, his recovery will be my Christmas present to him<3
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I've used the Repashy products for years. Using them for my chams too. I think you'll be very happy with them. Easy, great results. No confusion as it's an "all in one, dust lightly every day product". The Bug Burger and the Calcium Plus...great stuff.
Good luck with your Cham. I'm sure he will get better in a short time now.:)
Merry Christmas.
Susie
 
Tyggy Too said..."She still has her UVa light, and appears to be getting plenty of it that way"...its the UVB that the chameleon uses to produce the D3.

MyChameleonIsBro and TyggyToo...if your chameleons have MBD and that's why they are grabbing their legs, you have to correct the imbalance of calcium and other nutrients and then continue to provide a balance of nutrients to keep it from returning. I would also recommend that you improve your gutloading.

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Once more...Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
i did not read all your posts, BUT, i use fluker's calcium with d3 at every cricket feeding, every 2-3 days. i also do multi vitamin once a month. this has worked for me flawlessly for going on two years. i however, have a female veiled, which compared to other species and genders is small. what type of chameleon is it you have? and can you post a picture of your guy?
 
not sure how you missed my thread, but here it is for reference (includes pictures of him grabbing himself).

Kepler was grabbing himself almost daily and getting stuck. I took him to the vet and got a full workup done, and he saw no problems and hence was unable to help. I tried vitamin A supplementation along with a few other things described in my thread above, but nothing was working. Ultimately I changed a few things:
  • switched to repashy calcium+ daily dusting
  • purchased a new larger cage (much wider), and added many more branches for him to climb
  • replaced my UVB bulb and put a branch right under it so he could get closer if he so desired
  • changed my gut-loading procedure. Previously I was only feeding my crickets 'cricket crack' (dry), but have since switched to Cricket Crack+Collard Greens with the occasional orange or carrot.
I'm not sure which of the above corrected the problem, but I'm fairly confident it was a combination of the new wider cage and the change in my gut-loading procedure. It's been ~2 months since the last time Kepler has grabbed himself.
 
i'm just going to throw this out there but it doesn't look like he's full grown. do chams get uncoordinated and clumsy while they are growing? if so he could be doing the equivalent of tripping over his own feet.
 
biglittle said:
i'm just going to throw this out there but it doesn't look like he's full grown. do chams get uncoordinated and clumsy while they are growing? if so he could be doing the equivalent of tripping over his own feet.
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no, not really. It is usually a sign of MBD
 
I actually considered it, but if juvenile chams are THIS clumsy they'd never have made it out of the Jurassic. This is 'fall of the perch and lay on the ground' uncoordinated.

Someone mentioned in a vit D3 overdose discussion a characteristic 'tripod motion'. But they haven't responded to a request for more of a description (you mean not everyone reads this forum 3x day?). I'm wondering if they meant that both forelegs are grabbed by hindlegs and the tail is the third part of the tripod. If so, I would lean even more to the diagnosis of vit D overdose for my cham, and possibly yours.

Submitted for your approval,
Tyg
 
TyggyToo said:
I actually considered it, but if juvenile chams are THIS clumsy they'd never have made it out of the Jurassic. This is 'fall of the perch and lay on the ground' uncoordinated.

Someone mentioned in a vit D3 overdose discussion a characteristic 'tripod motion'. But they haven't responded to a request for more of a description (you mean not everyone reads this forum 3x day?). I'm wondering if they meant that both forelegs are grabbed by hindlegs and the tail is the third part of the tripod. If so, I would lean even more to the diagnosis of vit D overdose for my cham, and possibly yours.

Submitted for your approval,
Tyg
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3x a day? jeez... thats nothing....
 
I'm with Camimom on that....

When I've seen the "limb grabbing" the tail is just as likely to be grabbed as another leg, so you might see (1) back leg on tail (2) back leg on front leg (3) free front leg...that's also a tripod.
 
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