My Cham's Shocking Post-Purchase Exam

PascalDean

PascalDean

New Member
Today, I took Pascal, my 6 month old Veiled to the vet today. I have owned him for 2 months, and finally got in to see a well known well known reptile vet today. Pascal is my first chameleon, so I wasn't sure what to expect and what to look for health wise. As soon as the veterinarian saw him, he said he is much too small for his age. The vet weighed him at 40 grams. Before this visit, I have fed him 5-10 large crickets a day, with a Rep-Cal and Herp-Vite supplement once a week (each supplement on a different day). He was given a calcium shot and he had a fecal test. It turns out Pascal has an excessive amount of the Protozoa parasite in him. I was completely shocked by this because I thought I had a happy and healthy chameleon prior to this visit. The vet did note that he was very active and outgoing with the staff when he was taken to their back room for the testing, which made me happy. His medical situation was so bad that he will be on medication (Metronidazole) for 2 weeks (1 week medication, 2 week off, 1 more week of medication), and he has to be on powdered food, not live. My veterinarian says he must be fed with Repashy Grubs & Fruit Gecko diet, and no more live food. He said the can have frozen or freeze dried crickets after he passes his fecal exam in 4 weeks. (Has anyone had a similar situation??)

Moral of the story: I am so glad I took him to a post purchase exam, and that I had selected a knowledgeable veterinarian. Please take your cham to a professional!

As I am a first time owner, I am totally open to any advice yall have! Let me know!

Grace
 
ABSOLUTELY Correct,Im so glad u went for that visit with ur vet,u will never know how is the chamy doing until the professional chameleon specialist vet did their exam on ur cham.
6 month in between vet visit will rest assure everything to be fine.good job n good luck with ur cham!
 
I don't understand why you can't feed him live insects. Makes no sense to me. Most chams (captive bred or not) have some intestinal parasites. They are everywhere and their feeders carry them. They are treatable and controllable (the metro can treat them but I don't know if it needs to be given for WEEKS at a time to be effective), so unless your cham has other illnesses they can tolerate some. Parasite populations can bloom if the cham is otherwise sick, but this may not be the case for yours. Parasites can be checked with a fresh fecal sample periodically. You probably won't be able to get him to eat frozen insects as cham hunt live moving food. What this vet did not tell you was to correct your dusting schedule. It should be:

Dust with plain calcium (no added vit D3) daily.
Dust with calcium (with added vit D3) once every 2 weeks
Dust with a herp multivitamin once every 2 weeks.

For your general husbandry information I would make sure to read the veiled chameleon care sheet and other articles located under the forum's Resources tab.
 
That is very very strange advice from a vet...

Chameleons eat live insects. Was his advise permanently no more live insects? If so, there is a major misunderstanding there. You will have a hard time getting your cham to eat a premade mush diet, and it is certainly no substitute for a well rounded live insect diet.

That advise scares and worries me. If it were me, I would find another vet ASAP.
 
I don't understand why you'd need to force feed your chameleon a premade diet if he's eating on his own o_O... I have only ever force fed my chameleon rescues who weren't eating on their own.
 
I suspect your chameleon is having some cultural issues, since the Protozoa and flagellates are common and a normal part of a chameleons gut flora and fauna. My WC parsonii had some present, with their first fecal, while a second fecal a month later showed none. No medication was indicated and this was possible because they are in a properly set up enclosure with no stress.
Your chameleon may need warmer basking, more cover, less handling, or other small measures to help him get his gut microbes in check.
Administering an artificial diet will be VERY stressful and this vet is off for advising this. Not knowing the Protozoa load, I can only guess at his accuracy at prescribing meds, but there is not benefit and only detriment to force feeding a chameleon that would otherwise eat on its own, especially with the stress of having to administer meds. Not to mention aspiration risks, trauma to the mouth, and other negatives.
I am not a vet, but did work as a vet technician at a clinic that saw reptiles, as well as having successfully treated several WC melleri and experience with other chameleons and reptiles, so take my advice for what it's worth.
 
I do praise @PascalDean good motive to seek for a Vet check up exam,n I also agree with the live insect should be fed instead of Repashy Grub & Fruit Gecko diet,perhaps the vet thinks that the excessive amount of the Protozoa parasites are coming from the live insects u feeding him with??
My suggestion is ask ur current vet what is the real reason behind n also get a second opinion from a different well known chameleon specialist vet for their opinions.
 
I am with everyone else. Never heard of chams eating non live food.

1 thing sticks out with me however. "well known reptile vet today" he may very well be a great reptile vet but that doesn't mean he knows anything about chameleons. As his advice would lead to believe he does not.
 
At this point ,I wont point at any fault to anyone,there are always 2sides of the coin,just because we are not a professional chameleon specialist vet, I will still let Grace's Vet to explain the whole situation,before alphakenc I make my own statement,everything happen for a reason,maybe it will be the best to let Grace explaining the live insect parts to her current vet,then if she decided to letting us know the answer,then we can judge after!!
 
I also love the question that @Lathis asked.."Chameleons eat live insects. Was his advise permanently no more live insects? "
That will be a great question for Grace to ask her Vet,notice that keyword "permanently"!!
 
As an addition to my above comment, warmer temps often help parasites cycle faster and clear from the GI tract by speeding up their development and allowing the medications to do their work at the ideal stage of the parasites cycle to bring their levels down. Even if temps are adequate, raising them 3-5 degrees shouldn't do any harm. Also hydrate, hydrate, hydrate! Daily warm showers, while being medicated is a great idea.
 
These are the questions that Im consider... How long usually to graduate from a veterinarian school? 4Years n above more??
She states that she visit a very well known well known vet,so this vet she paid a visit is not a newly graduated veterinarian student.
Being admitted to the profession of veterinary medicine, they need to use their scientific knowledge and skills for the benefit of society through the protection of animal health, the relief of animal suffering, the conservation of livestock resources, the promotion of public health, and the advancement of medical knowledge. They also pratice their profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. They have to accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of their professional knowledge and competence.
There is got to be a reason that her vet recommended the solutions for her cham,Im not saying everyone is wrong about their suggestions n opinions,I just prefer to hear what does her vet Have to say before I make my own opinion n I also agree to find a second vet just to see what are they offering in this case.
 
alphakenc said:
These are the questions that Im consider... How long usually to graduate from a veterinarian school? 4Years n above more??
She states that she visit a very well known well known vet,so this vet she paid a visit is not a newly graduated veterinarian student.
Being admitted to the profession of veterinary medicine, they need to use their scientific knowledge and skills for the benefit of society through the protection of animal health, the relief of animal suffering, the conservation of livestock resources, the promotion of public health, and the advancement of medical knowledge. They also pratice their profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. They have to accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of their professional knowledge and competence.
There is got to be a reason that her vet recommended the solutions for her cham,Im not saying everyone is wrong about their suggestions n opinions,I just prefer to hear what does her vet Have to say before I make my own opinion n I also agree to find a second vet just to see what are they offering in this case.
Click to expand...

The thing is this is 2 fold.

1. Vets dont have to know everything about every animal, and most of the time they dont. My aunt is a vet, a very good vet but she doesnt know a thing about reptiles, I mean she knows basic stuff. However I likely know more than her lol, to be a vet you dont have to know about reptiles. Where she works does have a vet that does know about herps, she does not.

2. You can go to online school to become a vet these days, sad but true.

This is said many times even on these very forums. Just because they are a reptile vet does not make them a chameleon vet. Not many people own chameleons, a lot do sure but not as many as dog or cats. I bet most mammal vets dont have the slightest clue how to deal with a Monkey either.

Alot of vets, (even Reptile Vets). dont know how to treat a chameleon, so the do the logical thing to them and say well its a lizard so I will treat it like a Lizard. This is an issue as chameleons are nothing like other lizards.
 
Do we have the fact about this OP vet's background??
This is the reason that Im waiting for her side of the story since every vet has their own way of doing things.
It might sounds out of ordinary that whatever her vet suggested,Like I stated before,Im very curious about why did her vet recommended the solution that way,maybe there is something new that I never knew before which I surely wants to find out just to fulfill my satisfaction.
 
alphakenc said:
Do we have the fact about this OP vet's background??
This is the reason that Im waiting for her side of the story since every vet has their own way of doing things.
It might sounds out of ordinary that whatever her vet suggested,Like I stated before,Im very curious about why did her vet recommended the solution that way,maybe there is something new that I never knew before which I surely wants to find out just to fulfill my satisfaction.
Click to expand...

Well to quote OP,

"No more live food, repashy powered food, then freeze dried crickets after the next fecal in 4 weeks"

So this vet is saying feed powered (forcefeed obviously) till he is better then only feed freeze dried crickets.

Chameleons do not eat freeze dried crickets, so the vets background is......

Half the people on this site would be a better chameleon vet than him without even going to school for it. I know you want to give the benefits of the doubt. Because you are a very nice trusting person. However this post screams to me this vet has no knowledge of chameleons.

If I were op, I would find another. If in the case that he can't. I would buy a microscope and take some herp vet classes online, and become my own vet.

All that said, to be clear I am not trying to put this vet down. I am simply saying he is not specialized with chameleons. I would not ask a neurosurgeon for advice on a skin tag. As even if I did odds are he would be completely wrong. He isn't familiar with that type of medicine or that problem.

Just like this vet, he may try to help with good intentions. However his help will likely be inaccurate. And just like in this case, following his good intended advice could lead to more harm.
 
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What if that suggestion is only for "temporary" solution until the treatment comes to end regarding this vet believe that by feeding live feeder at this moment are not the best solution since there are excessive amount of the Protozoa parasite in that 6 month old weight in barely 40grams n Im not saying that is the "ONLY"option treatment for this poor veiled cham,maybe there is a special reason behind that,just like all cancer patients dont get treated in the same way,Im just thinking outside of the box instead of following the traditional way since medical sciences always discover some new better way to cure the same diease from thousands years ago,and I would like to know why is her vet recommended the different way, base on what is the purpose behind it,not saying the information I received from this forum are incorrect.There should be other options to consider as far as my concern.
 
alphakenc said:
What if that suggestion is only for "temporary" solution until the treatment comes to end regarding this vet believe that by feeding live feeder at this moment are not the best solution since there are excessive amount of the Protozoa parasite in that 6 month old weight in barely 40grams n Im not saying that is the "ONLY"option treatment for this poor veiled cham,maybe there is a special reason behind that,just like all cancer patients dont get treated in the same way,Im just thinking outside of the box instead of following the traditional way since medical sciences always discover some new better way to cure the same diease from thousands years ago,and I would like to know why is her vet recommended the different way, base on what is the purpose behind it,not saying the information I received from this forum are incorrect.There should be other options to consider as far as my concern.
Click to expand...

Well see the devil is in the details though right.

see this in a bubble is likely fine if the vet knows what they are doing.
"and he has to be on powdered food, not live. My veterinarian says he must be fed with Repashy Grubs & Fruit Gecko diet"

It doesn't stop there it goes on with,

"and no more live food" that to me implies forever.

Then, after treatment in 4 weeks, so parasites are treated and fixed, then

"He said the can have frozen or freeze dried crickets after he passes his fecal exam in 4 weeks."

read the whole thing and special attention to the underlined. After he Passes his fecal. So after he is cured only feed him freeze dried.

This is a chameleon not a bearded dragon and the vet obviously does not know the difference.
 
I respect all veterinarian out there cause they are the one who earns their careers not me or u or thousands of the chameleon forum members.
I dont think u can just easily to get online n became a true veterinarian,as far as I know,they require and need to maintain a competitive GPA preferably 3.5 or higher,they also need their animal and clinical experience and their GRE(Graduate record examination)and not to mention they also need their letters of recommendation so if u think u can just take a online courses to be a vet,thats not how it goes!!
As far as the op states that she is a beginner of the chameleon owner,maybe its possible that there is a missing link information between her well known vet n her,so my best suggestion for u is wait n see what the other party has to say,before we give our opinion here,there are always a different type of the knowledge Waiting for alphakenc to discover!!!
 
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