My first Panther Chameleon setup and concerns

[Madle]

Just joined the forum and will be getting our chameleon from the Chameleon Company on Thursday morning.
I have been looking over the forums and other websites for a few weeks now and have our setup almost complete. Our setup includes:
24" x 24" x 48" cage from lll reptile
10" Flukers sun dome with Zoo Med 75w bask bulb
18" Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb
Mist King starter kit
Zoo Med hygrotherm (setting it up today)
4' Schefflera Arboricola
4' Bird Ladder
Jungle Vine from petco
Vines and flowers from Michael's (all hand washed)



The basking light is 9" from the nearest horizontal perch. Temperatures and humidity when dry before misting are:
81 degrees under the bask bulb 45% humidity
75 degrees near the top with 50% humidity
71 degrees in the middle with 53% humidity
70 degrees at the bottom with 55% humidity

For feeding: Small crickets from petco until I setup a breeding kit. Will supplement with Reptical w/o D3 every feeding, with D3 every other week, and with Reptivite once on the opposite weeks from the Reptical with D3.

Concerns:
The bird ladder was painted and when misting it the paint bled. I took it out and washed it in a hot shower until the paint would no longer bleed from the ladder. Think this is now okay to use? Also before asking about the temps near the top of the ladder, they are safely 73 degrees.

The large cage for a small chameleon. I figured it would be okay to have such a large cage as long as there was adequate foliage incase of a fall. But I have also read and thought that chameleons in the wild will be on large trees and have to survive falls bigger than 4 feet. Second I know the issue of feeding a small cham in a large cage is an issue, to fix this I will be putting in a feeder cup so he knows where his food is located at all times until he gets bigger.

Hygrotherm. Where should I place the temp. and humidity reader? I was thinking near the top away from the basking light. Set at 75 degrees with a max temp of 80 and low of 72, the humidity set at 60% with high of 70% and low of 50% before the alarm sounds.

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to be totally ready when he arrives!

 

[carol5208]

I am guessing you are getting a panther? I would up the basking temp some. Maybe like or 5- degrees. You can always lower it if you see your chameleon gaping while basking. That would mean he is too hot and is trying to cool down. My panthers always like to bask at about 88-90 degrees or so even as babies and they did fine. Some people do not agree with this, and like to have the temps lower. I am sure Jim from Chameleon Company will give you a care sheet with suggested temps. You could raise the branch up a few inches to increase the temp. Yes at the top away from the light for the thermometer. Cage looks great!

 

[xraygirl]

I'm so happy and impressed that you did your research, AND had the cage set up and ready to go before the chameleon arrives! Bravo! Congrats on getting into this addictive hobby, and like everyone says, chameleons are like potato chips.... Can't have just one!

My suggestion like Carol says is to raise the basking area up to increase the temperature some. My one boy likes it on the cooler side, about 87 degrees, my other chunky boy likes warmer temps (90-92). So it's just a case to watch the cham to see what they think of the temperature.

My other suggestion is to look at building a drainage set up, I have a reptibreeze sitting ontop of a set up to drain into a 5 gallon bucket. Didn't do anything different with the bottom white tray, just have it situated over a utility sink with some 2x4's to set the cage on over the sink, with a bucket under it. It'll be a life saver! I tried the whole wiping the water up every day, using paper towels, sham-wow cloths, etc... didn't even try the puppy pads cause that's just spending money. Just a suggestion.

Be sure to post pictures of the new guy when he/she gets settled in!!

 

[Madle]

I'm so happy and impressed that you did your research, AND had the cage set up and ready to go before the chameleon arrives! Bravo! Congrats on getting into this addictive hobby, and like everyone says, chameleons are like potato chips.... Can't have just one!

My suggestion like Carol says is to raise the basking area up to increase the temperature some. My one boy likes it on the cooler side, about 87 degrees, my other chunky boy likes warmer temps (90-92). So it's just a case to watch the cham to see what they think of the temperature.

My other suggestion is to look at building a drainage set up, I have a reptibreeze sitting ontop of a set up to drain into a 5 gallon bucket. Didn't do anything different with the bottom white tray, just have it situated over a utility sink with some 2x4's to set the cage on over the sink, with a bucket under it. It'll be a life saver! I tried the whole wiping the water up every day, using paper towels, sham-wow cloths, etc... didn't even try the puppy pads cause that's just spending money. Just a suggestion.

Be sure to post pictures of the new guy when he/she gets settled in!!

I am guessing you are getting a panther? I would up the basking temp some. Maybe like or 5- degrees. You can always lower it if you see your chameleon gaping while basking. That would mean he is too hot and is trying to cool down. My panthers always like to bask at about 88-90 degrees or so even as babies and they did fine. Some people do not agree with this, and like to have the temps lower. I am sure Jim from Chameleon Company will give you a care sheet with suggested temps. You could raise the branch up a few inches to increase the temp. Yes at the top away from the light for the thermometer. Cage looks great!

Thank you for your inputs! I will probably just add a couple more branches above the current ones, that way he can have more basking options. I will watch for gaping though to be sure he isn't getting too hot. When he comes and when we decide a name I will post some pictures! Also we have some left over pee pads so I will probably utilize those while thinking of a new drainage system. Thanks again and I'm open to more suggestions!

 

[JGuinan007]

I'm not familiar with the Zoo Med hygrotherm what does it do and why do you have?

 

[Dday]

Looks great!!! If you get your hands on more vine, weave the vine in and out of each ladder spindle.....give it a more jungle look....keep up the good work. Sounds like your cham got spoiled

 

[Madle]

I'm not familiar with the Zoo Med hygrotherm what does it do and why do you have?

A hygrotherm is a device used to monitor and change both temperature and humidity. You plug in your heat lamp and misting system into it. Then set your preference of high and low temp, and high and low humidity. The system will turn off/on your heat lamp if it gets too hot/cold, and start/turn off your misting system when the humidity becomes too low/high. It is not necessary but I am sure there will be a time that I will need a friend to watch my cham for a weekend, and this system will make it so that all they will have to do is supplement and feed the crickets to my cham.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

^^ I've seen people put those on their setups and even thought about it for a slight bit myself once before deciding against it. I thought about a few possible flaws in how it works. It monitors both temperature AND humidity, which is kind of the fault in itself. Let me explain:

So the temperature probe constantly monitoring temperature will flick the bulb on and off when it gets too hot or too cold. That might equate to a lot of flashing over the course of a day, which may irritate the chameleon. That was flaw #1. Maybe not a "flaw", but a possible annoyance to the chameleon. They should of made the light do a dimmer/brighter feature instead of the on/off feature. Just mount your light and appropriate wattage bulb above the cage, and as long as the ambient room temps stay about the same all year, then the temperature in the room will never fluctuate, which will make the basking spot temperature hardly ever fluctuate, and you will never need it to turn on or off because it will always be right where it needs to be. Then the chameleon can just move up or down in the cage to regulate his own temperature.

Flaw #2 is with the humidity probe itself. With proper live plants in your cage, maybe mixed in with some fake ones, you won't have a lot of problems keeping the humidity where it needs to be. But what if the Hygrotherm thinks the humidity is low, and soaks the cage - yet, the cage hasn't had a lot of time to dry out since the last time it got misted? What if it's because the probe is going bad, and it's reading incorrectly, and it's over soaking your cage? (you cage needs time to dry out between misting sessions for the good of the plants AND the chameleon) Or what if the humidity probe just happens to be warmer than it should be, because it's catching heat from the basking bulb, which causes it to read low humidity than what it actually is, which also will cause it to kick on the mister and over soak the cage? Just a thought. You don't want to keep your humidity at one exact percentage either. You need to find the range of high and low, and keep it in between those ranges. It's good to have periods of higher and periods of lower humidity so that way it fluctuates slightly, just as it would in the wild.

Flaw #3 comes with the humidity probe and temperature probe combined. Let's pretend it's summer, and you have the windows open a bit to get some fresh air in. It's 80 degrees outside, warmer than the 70-72 (or whatever temp) degrees you typically keep your house at. Or maybe your windows aren't open, and it just gets a little warmer in your room anyways. Maybe it's just the air, maybe it was you baking cookies all day in the next room, maybe it's the bulb. Who knows, and it doesn't matter WHY. What matters is, that at your normal room temperatures you typically keep, your light is fine. Basking light temps are exactly where they need to be at all times.............. But let's pretend that on this day, it's a bit warmer, and your Hygrotherm decides to shut off the light because it senses it's a little warmer out than normal. No problem eh? Ok, now at the same time, because it's warm in there, your humidity is low, so your misting machine goes on and blasts the cage. Your temperature probe is probably now coated in water, which cools IT down, but not the ambient temperature of the room that the cage is in. So now your Hygrotherm THINKS that the temperature probe is cold, so the lights come back on full blast. And what if the chameleon is right under the light, and having it on full blast while the ambient room temp is warmer than normal will make the basking spot also warmer than normal, possibly burning the chameleon? That's why the light needs to be on a dimmer/brighter feature instead on an on/off feature.

These "flaws" might now be that big an issue to some, because to each his own. But those are the reasons chose against the unit myself. I figured it wasn't too hard to manually hand-spray a cage if needed by checking a hygrometer gauge. If it's a digital gauge or a dial gauge, it isn't that hard to check it visually. As for the light, like stated before, if just sitting above the cage with an appropriate wattage bulb, then the cage should always be fine, assuming it is in a room with an appropriately constant/controlled air temperature. Just IMHO

 

[Madle]

^^ I've seen people put those on their setups and even thought about it for a slight bit myself once before deciding against it. I thought about a few possible flaws in how it works. It monitors both temperature AND humidity, which is kind of the fault in itself. Let me explain:

So the temperature probe constantly monitoring temperature will flick the bulb on and off when it gets too hot or too cold. That might equate to a lot of flashing over the course of a day, which may irritate the chameleon. That was flaw #1. Maybe not a "flaw", but a possible annoyance to the chameleon. They should of made the light do a dimmer/brighter feature instead of the on/off feature. Just mount your light and appropriate wattage bulb above the cage, and as long as the ambient room temps stay about the same all year, then the temperature in the room will never fluctuate, which will make the basking spot temperature hardly ever fluctuate, and you will never need it to turn on or off because it will always be right where it needs to be. Then the chameleon can just move up or down in the cage to regulate his own temperature.

Flaw #2 is with the humidity probe itself. With proper live plants in your cage, maybe mixed in with some fake ones, you won't have a lot of problems keeping the humidity where it needs to be. But what if the Hygrotherm thinks the humidity is low, and soaks the cage - yet, the cage hasn't had a lot of time to dry out since the last time it got misted? What if it's because the probe is going bad, and it's reading incorrectly, and it's over soaking your cage? (you cage needs time to dry out between misting sessions for the good of the plants AND the chameleon) Or what if the humidity probe just happens to be warmer than it should be, because it's catching heat from the basking bulb, which causes it to read low humidity than what it actually is, which also will cause it to kick on the mister and over soak the cage? Just a thought. You don't want to keep your humidity at one exact percentage either. You need to find the range of high and low, and keep it in between those ranges. It's good to have periods of higher and periods of lower humidity so that way it fluctuates slightly, just as it would in the wild.

Flaw #3 comes with the humidity probe and temperature probe combined. Let's pretend it's summer, and you have the windows open a bit to get some fresh air in. It's 80 degrees outside, warmer than the 70-72 (or whatever temp) degrees you typically keep your house at. Or maybe your windows aren't open, and it just gets a little warmer in your room anyways. Maybe it's just the air, maybe it was you baking cookies all day in the next room, maybe it's the bulb. Who knows, and it doesn't matter WHY. What matters is, that at your normal room temperatures you typically keep, your light is fine. Basking light temps are exactly where they need to be at all times.............. But let's pretend that on this day, it's a bit warmer, and your Hygrotherm decides to shut off the light because it senses it's a little warmer out than normal. No problem eh? Ok, now at the same time, because it's warm in there, your humidity is low, so your misting machine goes on and blasts the cage. Your temperature probe is probably now coated in water, which cools IT down, but not the ambient temperature of the room that the cage is in. So now your Hygrotherm THINKS that the temperature probe is cold, so the lights come back on full blast. And what if the chameleon is right under the light, and having it on full blast while the ambient room temp is warmer than normal will make the basking spot also warmer than normal, possibly burning the chameleon? That's why the light needs to be on a dimmer/brighter feature instead on an on/off feature.

These "flaws" might now be that big an issue to some, because to each his own. But those are the reasons chose against the unit myself. I figured it wasn't too hard to manually hand-spray a cage if needed by checking a hygrometer gauge. If it's a digital gauge or a dial gauge, it isn't that hard to check it visually. As for the light, like stated before, if just sitting above the cage with an appropriate wattage bulb, then the cage should always be fine, assuming it is in a room with an appropriately constant/controlled air temperature. Just IMHO

Thanks for pointing out all of the flaws in this system, I played around with it yesterday and today. The temperature regulating was fine, it never shut off my lights until it was night time. The humidity regulation on the other hand didn't register right. The humidity was consistently ten percent below my other two humidity gauges, so I am not even going to use the system. It was a good idea but it seems like all of the kinks are yet to be worked out. Like you said my cage is already at adequate temps and humidity throughout the day so this isn't necessary or worth the risks.

 

[Connorology]

I might add a pothos plant too. Schefflera are great - I actually like them more than pothos myself - but in my experience they tend to thin out around the base and concentrate all their foliage growth up at the top of the cage near the light, so you end up with a spindly Dr. Seuss tree. Pothos grow like weeds in even terrible lighting, so if you get both, the pothos will fill in where the schefflera drops off. Pothos is a vine, but you can pretty easily anchor it to cage furniture or the cage itself with twist ties.

 

[Madle]

I might add a pothos plant too. Schefflera are great - I actually like them more than pothos myself - but in my experience they tend to thin out around the base and concentrate all their foliage growth up at the top of the cage near the light, so you end up with a spindly Dr. Seuss tree. Pothos grow like weeds in even terrible lighting, so if you get both, the pothos will fill in where the schefflera drops off. Pothos is a vine, but you can pretty easily anchor it to cage furniture or the cage itself with twist ties.

I just added a small dracaena and an orchid to the bottom, but the pothos was a great idea!