My Male has Gular Edema.. Help!

[NosyBe15]

Hey Everyone.

I have a 17mo old male NosyBe Panther. I have noticed he has Gular Edema. (Definate man boobs, going on to a size D if you ask me). I will admit I havent been paying as much attention to him in the last 2 weeks I was really watching my female because she was going to lay, (which she has, I posted a cool vid a week or so ago) But a few days ago, I have noticed that his Edema has gotten worse. I have read and read many threads on this forum as well as the internet, and havent really come to find any definate answers. In conclusion I am getting that it has to do with a Vit A imbalance. But havent read a "Definate Answer" when it comes to this issue. The threads I was reading were a year or older, So I am hoping by starting a new one, someone has some new info.

My dusting schedule is the standard. He eats every other day, His by daily dusting is calcium with NO d3. Twice a month he gets his multi vit. and twice a month he gets a dusting of calcuim with D3.

My main gutload is Cricket Crack. I also toss in a sliced orange to help. (I was using flukers orange cubes here and there for cricket hydration but I am thinking I am going to cut those out since I dont know where this Edema is coming from)

My male Definately has Edema. My female doesnt. And thinking back, I think the edema started getting worse when I started offering him Dubia. (theyre gutloaded with cricket crack also) I havent read anything negative about Dubia, or cricket crack, but could that have any connection? Does anyone have any new news on Edema?

My male Clarence is still acting normal as usual, no tounge issues, no mouth issues, just a nice set of man boobs. So for the last week, I have not dusted his food, and acutally fed him less to see if that gets the swelling around his throat and man boobs to go away. And when I have fed him his crickets, I havent dusted them at all for the last week. He does get a superworm once a week for a treat, which he loves and still instantly snags out of my hand.

He is still as active as usual, when I go up to his cage he runs right up to the front looking at me to either get out or snag a super out of my hands, so I dont think the edema is bothering him. But what does anyone have to say about this situation? Is there any new news on this issue? Should I schedule a vet visit even though I know what the issue is? Would that shed any light on any new info?

So, to sum it up, is there any new info on this issue, and how to get it to go away?

 

[carol5208]

Nope! Good luck with it! I just put a chameleon down that had it for about 4 years. He had other health issues besides the edema and that is not why I had to let him go. I know they can live with it and can say from my experience and from what I have seen on here that it is not fatal. I would say maybe try not using the Cricket Crack for awhile and use fresh fruits and veggies as gutload. I literally tried switching up everything, from diet, gutload and supplements and nothing really ever worked long term. It is like once they get it, it is chronic with flare ups.. There were days when it was really bad and other days it was non existant. On the days when it went away, I thought ok I changed this or that would stay with that regime and then it would only come back again.

 

[DirtyDubbz]

Can we get a few pics im not really sure what this is exactly is it the pitts

 

[xraygirl]

Chief has it too, he came with it when I found him. A friend suggested using repashy rescuecal in his little dripper, like a teensy tiny bit, like a few pinches worth. After a few weeks it looked like it went away. I just gave him his D3 'dose' and it's flared up again. *sigh*

 

[carol5208]

Chief has it too, he came with it when I found him. A friend suggested using repashy rescuecal in his little dripper, like a teensy tiny bit, like a few pinches worth. After a few weeks it looked like it went away. I just gave him his D3 'dose' and it's flared up again. *sigh*

I never supplemented my chameleon that had the edema with d3 at all as I live in Florida and he primarily lived outdoors. So I know artificial d3 was not the cause.

 

[xraygirl]

I never supplemented my chameleon that had the edema with d3 at all as I live in Florida and he primarily lived outdoors. So I know artificial d3 was not the cause.

I wish I could let him spend some time outside other than the short amounts of time we would clean his cage outside.
It was probably coincidental but he's also going into a shed too? The whole edema thing is a touchy area it seems.

 

[carol5208]

I wish I could let him spend some time outside other than the short amounts of time we would clean his cage outside.
It was probably coincidental but he's also going into a shed too? The whole edema thing is a touchy area it seems.

It just seems like no one has ever pinpointed the actual reason chameleons get it. A lot of guessing going on from what I have seen. Why does one that is supplemented and fed the same diet not get it and the other one does? I guess it is just like any medical condition as in humans, meaning why does one person smoke and get cancer and another who does, does not? Is it a genetic thing? Who knows!?

 

[xraygirl]

It just seems like no one has ever pinpointed the actual reason chameleons get it. A lot of guessing going on from what I have seen. Why does one that is supplemented and fed the same diet not get it and the other one does? I guess it is just like any medical condition as in humans, meaning why does one person smoke and get cancer and another who does, does not? Is it a genetic thing? Who knows!?

Exactly! I've heard and read a bunch of different scenarios.... Maybe one day someone will figure it out.

 

[pigglett79]

Yeah my George still has gular edema and it is severe. We have done blood work, tried antibiotics, changed gut loads, changed supplements, changed water,. Nothing helps. We and our vet cannot figure out what caused it and his is significant. He has had this for just under a year now. It does seem to look better some days and worse other days, but no pin pointing what may be the issue.

You can really see it in this pic

 

[NosyBe15]

Wow, I am subscribed to this thread and didnt get any notifications of any of these replies.

I will try to snag some photos of Clarence, but he looks similar to the Cham above, just not quite as bad. In the mean time I am going to schedule a vet visit to see if he could be of any help.

It kind of blows me away that nobody has found the exact cause of this issue, all the studies and smart people on this forum you'd think we would have some sort of answer by now. But I agree, Everything I read, there isnt a real "Cause of the Issue and how to Fix it" answer.

 

[melble68]

My 9month old Nosy Be Luke started showing a bit of gular edema a couple months ago, so I started ready each and any post I could find on why, how, and what to do. And just like you found out, nobody really knows exactly why. What was reassuring was that everything I read said that they can live with it, and its not to much of a huge deal. One thing I did read was that it was possibly to do w/ the calcium that is being used. Even though some vendor's calcium says 100% calcium only w/ no D3, it may not be 100% calcium only w/ no D3. I read someone changed their "calcium only" to Rep-Cal Calcium 0% D3 from what they were using, and the edema dwindled to a tolerable amount. I used to use Zoo Med Repti Calcium with out D3, and made the switch to Rep-Cal Calcium 0% D3, and Luke's gular edema has subsided to the point where I don't really notice it. I'm happy w/ the results from changing to Rep-Cal Calcium 0% D3 for my every day calcium dusting. I still dust w/ Calcium D3 every other monday (until we move to the outdoor big enclosure), and then the alternating every other monday w/ a multivitamin.

 

[NosyBe15]

Speaking with a Vet who came recommended. She said that there is no way its too much Vit A, unless I was literally giving him injections, and his multi every day, which I am not.

Speaking to another keeper, he pointed out that it usually has to do with Tap water. Anyone else on this thread use Tap water? Looks like I am going to have to find a deal on Bottled water 5 Gallon jugs and switch to that to see if anything changes.

He has gotten better since I stopped dusting daily. Its still there but not as noticeable.

But I wonder if Tap water is the culprit.

Any ideas?

 

[pigglett79]

Speaking with a Vet who came recommended. She said that there is no way its too much Vit A, unless I was literally giving him injections, and his multi every day, which I am not.

Speaking to another keeper, he pointed out that it usually has to do with Tap water. Anyone else on this thread use Tap water? Looks like I am going to have to find a deal on Bottled water 5 Gallon jugs and switch to that to see if anything changes.

He has gotten better since I stopped dusting daily. Its still there but not as noticeable.

But I wonder if Tap water is the culprit.

Any ideas?

I use tap water that only goes through an under the sink filter. Given that I go through at least 10 gallons a week, maybe I should invest in an RO filter and then see what happens. Although the jackson who we have had longer than the panther does not exhibit gular edema, but could jsut be a difference between species?

 

[pigglett79]

I ordered an RO filter that is certified by the water quality association and filters out (Barium, Cadmium, Copper, Cyst, Fluoride, Hexavalent Chromium, Lead, Pentavalent Arsenic <= 50 ppb reduction, Radium 226/228, Selenium, TDS, Trivalent Chromium, Turbidity, VOC (as chloroform)) I didnt see many that are certified and also filter out VOC. So.......we will install it this weekend and lets see how George's horrible edema responds. I would like to rule out all possible causes. I will update in a few weeks.

 

[NosyBe15]

I ordered an RO filter that is certified by the water quality association and filters out (Barium, Cadmium, Copper, Cyst, Fluoride, Hexavalent Chromium, Lead, Pentavalent Arsenic <= 50 ppb reduction, Radium 226/228, Selenium, TDS, Trivalent Chromium, Turbidity, VOC (as chloroform)) I didnt see many that are certified and also filter out VOC. So.......we will install it this weekend and lets see how George's horrible edema responds. I would like to rule out all possible causes. I will update in a few weeks.

Sounds like a plan. Im just getting big jugs of water, but in the long run I think thats going to get pricy. So Keep me posted on how your filter works and maybe we can get this figured out.

 

[cambech]

My panther Dio used get this all of the time. seemed like every 6 months or so. he actually just had it couple of months ago. I would cut back on my dusting of his feeders to only dusting with calcium every other feeding(still gave him the multivit and d3 calcium on time though) and then providing him with more water(even if had to put him in a warm shower to get him to drink more) and it' always seems to go away in about a week or so. He's over 5 years old now and still going strong but it would be nice to know exactly what causes this. I hear some chams are just more sensitive than others to supplementing.

 

[pigglett79]

My panther Dio used get this all of the time. seemed like every 6 months or so. he actually just had it couple of months ago. I would cut back on my dusting of his feeders to only dusting with calcium every other feeding(still gave him the multivit and d3 calcium on time though) and then providing him with more water(even if had to put him in a warm shower to get him to drink more) and it' always seems to go away in about a week or so. He's over 5 years old now and still going strong but it would be nice to know exactly what causes this. I hear some chams are just more sensitive than others to supplementing.

I am pretty sure my panthers edema is not related to supplements. At first I though possible D3 so I stopped using it all together and increased his outside time. That didnt help. And he can go a couple weeks or more without much calcium powder at all depending on what he is eating or if he is eating at all. And the edema does not decrease. For instance he went one week only eating moths and the next only eating horn worms so for around 2-3 weeks not much calcium powder, and no response with the edema.

I'm sure there are various possibilities and not every case of edema will be caused by the same thing. But in my case he is otherwise healthy. Recent blood work and check up were all good. Vet did try a round of antibiotics just in case there was some infection we couldn't detect and that did nothing as well.

He also has top of the line lighting and gets a decent amount of real sunshine. I breed at least 5 types of feeders so he always has a variety and I have a varied healthy gutload. So its really a mystery and for me the water is pretty much the last thing I can rule out. If that doesn't make a different then all I can think is he has some disease or issue inside that we aren't detecting.

 

[pigglett79]

So this week is 4 weeks since installing the RO filter and I have not seen any improvement with George ' s edema. He also has a very limited appetite. Just figured I would update.

 

[christineacero]

Save some money by boiling large amounts of tap water yourself, to make distilled water and keep it in jugs.

 

[NosyBe15]

Thanks for the update pigglett79. Since cutting back on the dusting I havent really seen much improvement in Clarence either. He has better days then others, but its still defiantly there.