My observations...indicative of disease?

[ddejesus]

I just received my 3 month ambilobe today and when I opened the packaging I seen that he was asleep, so I left him in there until he woke up. During his sleep I noticed a few things...

1. He had heavy breathing and I heard a "pop" that was followed by him opening/gaping his mouth.

2. His eye turret/skin covering the eye were bulging/blowing up (the only way I can describe it is like a toad when it bulges its throat)...first his right eye then his left. It would bulge out quite far, almost 2x bigger than his regular eye size.

3. I noticed the following once he awoke and I put him in his cage. I turned on the mister and immediately he sprinted towards a branch that allowed him to get misted on directly. I seen him trying to lick the drops accumulated on the branch but he didn't move to where the larger drops were on the leaves of the schefflera. The dripper followed the misting session and he did not even bother going towards that side. He just sat in the same place where he was misted with his eyes closed.After the 20 minute misting session I noticed some druel/saliva on the side of his mouth and he had his eyes closed for the 10-15 min that I seen him afterwards.

All this occured literally within the first 1-2 hrs after I opened the packaging the cham came shipped in. I haven't observed him since and will be getting home in 1/2 hr. I tried taking pictures but my cheap camera does not display the problem good enough. My question(s) is... Is this normal in chameleons? What is it indicative of if indeed it is disease? What do you suggest I do?

Here are some actions I plan on taking..
When I get home, If i still see the drool on the side of his mouth, I will get a syringe and try putting some drops of water in his mouth. Also, I plan on setting him on my umbrella plant and water him in the shower for 15-20 minutes. Tomorrow I was planning on paying the vet a visit for a general check up but it may need to be sooner if this indicates disease. I appreciate all of your help/recommendations!

-Damian

 

[lonomac]

Where did you get this guy?

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Greetings, and congratulations on the newest member of your family.

SOme of the symptoms you describe may indicate URI, but I have no first-hand knowledge of that, so will leave that for the experts.

I can say that the swelling up the eye thing may have simply been due to dehydration, caused by the lack of water during shipment. The guy may have just needed to moisten and clean his eyes. The bulging of the eye can be part of their routine maintenance. Arriving thirsty is normal. The fact that he displayed the energy and spirit to race to where the water was is a good sign. I generally do extra frequent hand mistings with a new arrival, being certain to get the mist where he can clean his eyes, as well as moisten his skin and drink.

If he does have an upper respiratory infection, his energy indicates that he is still in pretty good shape, and in my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion, indicates a good chance for a full recovery if treated immediately.

Stay tuned for the more seasoned owners to respond, and, again, congratulations on your new arrival. Let us know how it goes, and we'd love to see a photo of the little guy!

 

[lonomac]

I think sleeping in the package is really odd. Every time Ive opened that up, they cant wait to get the He!! out of there. If you can get pics, and if there is something obviously wrong with him, id email the place you got him from and see about getting your money back, or at least a vet visit from them

 

[Kent67]

Hi Damian,

I remember your post before about getting people's opinion on your setup. You've done a great job to start out with, so let's make sure this goes the right way.

1. Worrisome, but hopefully not a URI. Although it's been getting cold, he didn't travel too far and was hopefully inside the whole time. If I were you, I would see how he's acting when you get home. If you still hear pops or weird gaping, contact the breeder ASAP. When chameleons are in a dark place, they cannot see and will just go to sleep so sleeping in the box is to be expected. The gaping could also have just been a fear response to being disturbed or moved.

2. Normal unless he's doing it all the time. Hopefully he just had a little debris or something in his eye from the shipping box, paper towel, etc.

3. Drinking already is good. I'd keep with the mistings and not try the syringe. Again, knowing where he came from I'm sure his hydration should be fine and the overnight trip from their house to yours shouldn't have changed that. In fact, it's probably why he just had a little water and stopped. Also, unless you have a fine misting head, the shower will be too heavy for a baby that small. Just keep up the in cage mistings and let us know how he looks when you get home.

Once he's been in the cage for a while and if there is an adequate brightness of light, he should not be sleeping during the day. Let us know if that's still happening too.

 

[dodolah]

see my response in red:

I just received my 3 month ambilobe today and when I opened the packaging I seen that he was asleep, so I left him in there until he woke up. During his sleep I noticed a few things...

1. He had heavy breathing and I heard a "pop" that was followed by him opening/gaping his mouth.
It sounds like an Upper Respiratory Infection

2. His eye turret/skin covering the eye were bulging/blowing up (the only way I can describe it is like a toad when it bulges its throat)...first his right eye then his left. It would bulge out quite far, almost 2x bigger than his regular eye size.
that's what chameleon do when they clean their eyes. it's normal

3. I noticed the following once he awoke and I put him in his cage. I turned on the mister and immediately he sprinted towards a branch that allowed him to get misted on directly. I seen him trying to lick the drops accumulated on the branch but he didn't move to where the larger drops were on the leaves of the schefflera. The dripper followed the misting session and he did not even bother going towards that side. He just sat in the same place where he was misted with his eyes closed. he seems to be drinking and enjoying his misting session. Also he probably tries to clean his eyes again

After the 20 minute misting session I noticed some druel/saliva on the side of his mouth and he had his eyes closed for the 10-15 min that I seen him afterwards. Yeah... that's not a good indication

All this occured literally within the first 1-2 hrs after I opened the packaging the cham came shipped in. I haven't observed him since and will be getting home in 1/2 hr. I tried taking pictures but my cheap camera does not display the problem good enough. My question(s) is... Is this normal in chameleons? What is it indicative of if indeed it is disease? What do you suggest I do?
I suspect that he might have a URI and perhaps some irritation in the eyes.. monitor if he keep bulging his eyes

Here are some actions I plan on taking..
When I get home, If i still see the drool on the side of his mouth, I will get a syringe and try putting some drops of water in his mouth. Also, I plan on setting him on my umbrella plant and water him in the shower for 15-20 minutes. Tomorrow I was planning on paying the vet a visit for a general check up but it may need to be sooner if this indicates disease. I appreciate all of your help/recommendations!
You said you just got it, right? can you contact the breeder and tell them your situation? I don't think it's fair for you to get a sick animal. If he/she is a reputable breeder, he/she will take care of it. After all, he is sick on arrival. you should immediately called the breeder once you see these weird reactions.
Hope that helps

-Damian

 

[ddejesus]

Update...

I got home a while ago and I seen him in the same schefflera stem I last saw him 2 hrs ago only now he was with his eyes closed, as if sleeping. Second, I kept hearing the pop and gaping of the mouth, he will at times open and close his mouth as if saying "im thirsty." When the cham opens his mouth I also notice some drool/mucous, although not very viscous, but noticeable with small bubbles. I also notice very heavy, forced breathing. Also, at times one eye gets extremely larger than the other. I checked some references and it all points to URI. I set up an appointment with the vet for tomorrow.

He started moving around when I tried to put some silkies in the cage and he grasped the mesh on the aluminum cage and was upside down right under the UVB (thank god I switched to 5.0). I had to turn off the basking for a moment because he was right under it and my therm showed 85 about 6" below the screen so I can imagine what it was on the screen! He hasn't ate yet, have offered silkies and crickets and nothing thus far.

I have contacted the breeder and am still awaiting his response. Let me know what you guys think! Thanks.

Damian

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Thank you for the update. We will say a prayer for him. Good job getting on it right away and getting him to the vet tomorrow. From what I understand, gotten early enough, and with the proper treatment they can really pull through.

 

[Kent67]

Sadly, that does sound like an advanced respiratory infection. Call the breeder, let them know (by contact I assume you mean email).

 

[ddejesus]

Update

Yes I emailed the breeder and left a message by phone. Hopefully he contacts me soon. If it helps any, here are some pics I took of the little guy today. The first one is the cup he was shipped inside of and shows the bulge starting out on his eye. The next two are of him during misting. The next is him trying to run away from me and the last is him asleep like 3 hours before lights out. Hope I can save him tomorrow at the vet. Thanks everyone!

Damian

P.S. I just made contact w/ the breeder and all is well, the cham is definitely guaranteed.

 

[Fate X]

yeah he can be saved,where was he shipped from and to ?

 

[ddejesus]

In all honesty, I don't think you can tell whether a cham can be saved or not through those pictures. I have been monitoring him in these past 3 days and it is not looking good. Although I am trying to be optimistic, giving him baytril, and misting him frequently he is asleep all day long and has turned dark black. The mucous around his mouth has gotten thicker and he blindlessly reaches his arms out to grab a branch that isn't there because his eyes are closed! I do not want to post where he came from but just know I am giving him the best attention I can. It is very advanced, as the vet also re-affirmed this. Perhaps he CAN be saved but it is all determined on how advanced the URI has gotten and the strength of his immune system. But to bluntly say he can be saved and IF he doesn't make it, it then makes me responsible for his demise, and I cannot accept that as this poor cham came to me in this condition.

Damian

 

[Fate X]

i have a female veiled that went eggbound last yr and she was very ill ,matter of fact she was almost dead.she so much struggled just to breath and climb.but the vet gave me drugs for her and some instructions as to whats best for her condition.she cried but,it was worth it i had to give her injections for 3-4 days i beleive it was and i had to make food for her and feed her by hand but in the end 3 weeks later she was like new ,it was a 50/50 situation.
as for your pic i can see enough and what you stated about her condition that I beleive she can still make it,like i said I beleive she still got a chance.
other people but not think she can live is ok too.

i just looked at your pics with my other machine i can see more on this machine.the eye looks messed up on the first pic,on the second her arms look thin and her mouth looks swollen the third is one of the better pics she looks alive just her eye is closed.the forth pic is terrible its so blurry ,did you use zoom for the pics? the 5th one is onother better pic she looks ok shes a litte thin at the tendon areas its ok though alot people like thinner chams,i like the females on the thin side myself they seem in healthier condition that way.

theres only 2 pics that i can really see her ok in.it almost looks like maybe you took these on different days cause in the one she looks better then i think the 3rd one might be another ,but she looks worse in that one.


mist her with warm water when you mist her,keep her on the warm side until she starts moving around.does she bask ???

it looks like she is or was. if shes basking let her warm up and let her alone then get a warm spray bottle and lighly mist her from about 3-4 feet away depend on yo sprayer. you want a very fine mist almost nothing but something.if she moves away from the mist then stop.wait a little make sure the water is warm then try again when she accepts the mist keep it on her for lke 5mn she should start drinking mist her on and off it usually starts them drinking,once she starts let her drink,i let mine drink until they dont drink no more. if she does that then you can take her to the vet for the medicine etc.

where did you get her from?