My Veiled Cham is really weak.

ferretinmyshoes said:
Just peeking in between my appointments so will make this brief. She definitely has MBD and she definitely looks egg bound. Her eggs are not shelled yet from the looks of her x-ray and appear to be in the follicular phase still. I think that's what you may have been referring to jpowell rather than truly infertile. With follicles it means they're either too early to be laid, or they're stuck that way and will never actually get shelled enough to be laid. Oxytocin will not be effective at this stage. And she's in no condition to lay right now given her MBD. If she is strong and trying to be somewhat normal you can give it a few weeks of treating her MBD and if at that point her x-ray has not changed (still tight cluster of very round shapes) then she's in follicular stasis and will need surgical removal. If they look a little more spread out and oval rather than round then they might be progressing to shelled eggs that can be laid. But surgery is often needed with these girls because their bodies are too overwhelmed by the MBD to be able to keep everything else normal.
Click to expand...

So is it possible that there may be damage done since oxytocin was administered? I have always been under the impression that oxytocin given too early or not when the chameleon is in labor can cause damage internally. Is that correct or is it outdated information?
 
It will either just not do anything at all, or in some cases can potentially cause damage to the reproductive tract. Generally the biggest problem is with eggs adhered to the oviducts because the oviduct (basically uterus) will push too hard against something that won't move and it can rupture. The good thing about follicular stasis is they are all still in the ovary so contraction is happening in the empty oviduct so there's nothing to push through or against. Unlikely to cause rupture. So most likely it didn't cause any damage per se, but did use up a good deal of calcium with muscle contractions.

If done correctly (good premedications and anesthetic monitoring and fast surgery) I don't necessarily find the mortality rate very high. Sick chameleons are at higher risk but I wouldn't rule out surgery as an option for her. If she is truly in follicular stasis she will die without surgery.
 
Update - I agree on the MDB. The Vet said he thought she had some. She has started moving around more today, and was actually climbing a bit this evening.

Per recommendation from the Vet, I gave her some Repticare tonight, and she ate really good. What ferretinmyshoes said about the Oxytocin is exactly what my Vet said - He said it would either work, or do nothing at all based on what he was seeing. It did nothing ...

At this point, we're going to just keep addressing the MDB via high nutrient feeding, and calcium injections. We're hopeful that the the calcium is enough to fix the MDB, and get her eggs going as well. She is trying very hard to act normal, her color is good, eyes are clear, and she's trying to move around. She looked better this evening.

As for surgery, the nearest Vet that does that type of surgery is about 2 hours away, and charges $800 - $1000.00. Unfortunately I don't think I can afford that. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Thanks again for all of your feedback, and in particular to ferretinmyshoes - I really appreciate you taking the time to look at the x-rays and offer your professional opinion.
 
Oh, wanted to add too, the UPS guy arrived today with Calcium without D3, Calcium with D3, Multivitamin, and Cricket Crack. So as soon as she's eating insects again, I'm prepared to do this the right way this time. Again, just hate she had to suffer due to my ignorance ... but at least now I know.
 
Knowing and being willing to do something about it is the biggest part of this! It's one thing to never do the research and let her suffer or to do the research and not be willing to make changes or seek help. So she is lucky to have you give her the best chance possible now that you know!

larryecm said:
As for surgery, the nearest Vet that does that type of surgery is about 2 hours away, and charges $800 - $1000.00.
Click to expand...
Wow...I guess I'm undercharging! Mine run about $350. But every clinic is different so you will see a very large variation in pricing depending on location, comfort level, etc.
 
She seem to be walking around better this morning - Still a little shaky and weak, but her foot movement seems normal, and she has been moving around much more today. I tried to feed her a little Carnivore Care again this morning, but I think she vomited most of it back up. I'll try it thinned out a little more, and a little less later today.

Unfortunately my schedule and my Vets schedule aren't matching up today, so I'll take her first thing in the morning to get her another Calcium shot.
 
Wanted to provide another update - She received another calcium shot this morning. Still no big difference at all. She is still barely able to move. I did feed her a little Repticare with some calcium and Vitamins mixed in. But she didn't eat much at all. She won't eat crickets, and will not drink.

I'm going to talk to Vet again tomorrow and discuss what we should do. I expected to see a big improvement after 3 different calcium shots, and the force feedings the Vet did. She doesn't look well, and just lays on the laying bin floor. It's very sad.

Even if we did the surgery, my Vet, after consulting with the surgeon, didn't feel she was strong enough to survive the surgery. Will know more tomorrow I hope.
 
I'm sorry to hear this. It can be such a dilemma...all the treatments that are supposed to help can also compound the overall stress. Hoping for the best still!
 
Is your vet giving calcium injections or vitamin D injections? Generally vitamin D is given by injection and a liquid calcium (calcium glubionate) is sent home to be given orally twice a day. According to the reptile practitioner's bible (Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery) injectable calcium should never be used because it can be painful and can cause kidney damage. One thing to remember is that it took a while to get into this state and its going to take a while to recover. It will take several months for a full recovery. If its warm enough outside 30-60 minutes a day in direct sunlight would also help. Keep us posted and good luck.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for not updating - Tax time, which has been a nightmare for me this year.

@JoeVet - The shot is a mix of Vitamin D and Calcium. I do have some liquid calcium I have been using at home as well, between the injections. I've been giving it to her orally using an eye dropper, and also in a spray bottle. I'm not sure on the injections, but he did consult with a few well known reptile vets he knows, and that was the course of action they recommended. But it's been over a week since she received an injection.

The past few days, she has looked really bad - Very thin, still wasn't eating or drinking, and no eggs yet. I was expecting to find her dead almost every morning.

However, late yesterday, I sprayed her with some warm water - and she had a bowl movement. Within a few hours, she started drinking. She drank again this morning. So I thought I would try her with a cricket or two. She ate one (dusted with Calcium) almost immediately and has been eyeing up the other two.

So today was an improvement. She is still thin, very weak, and can barely walk. But she's hanging on. I'll try to do a better job keeping you posted.
 
ahhh bless her, fingers crossed she's on her way back.
Thanks for the update, ur doing a great job very dedicated
 
Update - She's about the same. Still hasn't laid eggs, and still very weak and frail. She does seem to be moving around a little more, and trying to climb a little. So maybe that is a good sign.

My Biggest concern is that she has not laid her eggs. I've been dosing her with Calcium via her water, and she eats a few crickets every couple of days.

Just keeping my fingers crossed that I check on her one day and find eggs.
 
Hey all, things are pretty much the same, well except for something rather strange ....

Warning, this is a bit gross...

I checked on her yesterday morning, and in the case was a rather large brown looking "lump" for lack of a better word. It looked a lot like a chestnut, but of course softer. I assuming, since she hadn't had a bowl movement in a while, that was probably it. So I removed it and threw it away.

In hindsight, I'm beginning to question that now - Is it possible this could have been the undeveloped eggs? Is it possible they could have been in a brown sack?

Since then, she's been moving around better, drinking more often and seems a bit more perky.
 
I am sorry, I could have sworn I update this. Yes, she made it and is doing great! Thank you!

karma-not-sick.jpg
 
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