Neck fat

[ADotsalot]

So my female veiled chameleon has reoccurring neck fat and I'm really confused on what's going on! I've read multiple other threads about the chameleons with neck fat and they say it could be gular edema or the female chameleon is gravid. I'm guessing gravid means she needs to lay eggs but my chameleon got her ovaries removed due to being egg bound. And I'm not sure if gular edema can just appear, disappear, and come back a few weeks later like what's been happening with her. I stopped feeding her for more than 24 hours just to see if she had some food stuck in her throat, which happens a lot after a meal because she eats really quickly. But it's still there. So I'm posting some pictures to see what you guys think. Thank you for the help and sorry for the bad quality. If I got any closer she would puff up because she's extreamly scared of my phone.

 

[CharlesYamaguchi]

Gular edema can be brought on by many different things. For one does she drink every day and by drink do you see her drinking? Gular edema can sometimes come from an inadequate amount of water and cause organ issues, causing this swelling in the body.

Also, what are her supplements and schedule? This can also lead to an excess of phosphorous which could cause this as well as later gout!

And! haha What are her feeders and what do you feed them? She may be getting too much protein heavy feeders and eating far too much! OR her feeders may be eating protein which in some feeder insects can create uric acid which when ingested by the chameleon can create problems as well.

 

[CharlesYamaguchi]

And yes, sometimes fluctuations during egg creation can cause gravid females to develop this but seeing as she has had her ovaries removed, this could be causing imbalances of its own

 

[ADotsalot]

Gular edema can be brought on by many different things. For one does she drink every day and by drink do you see her drinking? Gular edema can sometimes come from an inadequate amount of water and cause organ issues, causing this swelling in the body.

Also, what are her supplements and schedule? This can also lead to an excess of phosphorous which could cause this as well as later gout!

And! haha What are her feeders and what do you feed them? She may be getting too much protein heavy feeders and eating far too much! OR her feeders may be eating protein which in some feeder insects can create uric acid which when ingested by the chameleon can create problems as well.

She drinks plenty of water everyday. I have to still force water her from time to time but she's getting better(she stopped drinking fully when she became egg bound and still didn't drink after surgery)
Before her surgery she would only eat about 4 or 6 large crickets a day, now she eats as much as I give her and still wants more. I feed her about 8 large crickets with a few superworms. I dust them with multivitamins once a month, calcium with d3 once a month, and calcium without d3 for the rest of the month. I don't know what the superworms eat (they come in a cup with their food already in it) but my feeder crickets eat fulkers cricket food. Some days I feed her just a few thin slices of apples because she absolutely loves those things, but it's not too often.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Good job @CharlesYamaguchi well stated!

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I’d cast a suspicious eye on the Flukers cricket diet, as its likely glorified poultry feed, full of inappropriate amounts of vitamins, while fully lacking in meaningful gutload ingredients. You need to change what you are feeding the feeders and there are lots of resources available to tell you what to feed as well as reputable replacements for the Flukers, sold on the forum.

 

[ADotsalot]

I’d cast a suspicious eye on the Flukers cricket diet, as its likely glorified poultry feed, full of inappropriate amounts of vitamins, while fully lacking in meaningful gutload ingredients. You need to change what you are feeding the feeders and there are lots of resources available to tell you what to feed as well as reputable replacements for the Flukers, sold on the forum.

So then it's for sure gout? It's not deathly is it?? It's in her neck so I'm scared she'll sufacate. I'll definetly change the crickets' diet. Should I also change the crickets' water source; Flukers cricket quencher?

 

[kinyonga]

Never heard of gout showing up as throat seems..it's usually from kidney /organ damage or oversupplementing certain vitamins or from improper insect feeding in my experience.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Not gout, organ failure! Kidney and/or liver failure.

 

[Daniel The Chameleon]

Hello! I'm somewhat new to this site, and I came to look for advice/help for my cham, Daniel. I noticed a bump on his eyelid a few days ago, and since then it's grown and his eye has begun to swell up. He has been rubbing the sore on branches, opening it. I just took him out of his cage and gently wiped away dirt from the sore with a wet paper towel, and I noticed the welling seemed to go down a bit. My question is, does anyone know what the bump is, what's causing it, and I should do?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

With a correct gutload of wet and dry ingredients, you shouldn’t need to supply any additional moisture to your feeders. You can use organic babyfood as a moist gutload and rely on cricket crack or big buffet as a dry gutload and that’s the minimalist approach. Freshly chopped dark, leafy, greens, winter squash, cactus fruits and pads, grape leaves, figs and fig leaves, grated sweet potato, and other fresh produce is an ideal wet gutload, but understandably it is not always possible to supply with busy schedules, seasonal availability, and depending on where you live, so you need to rely on something better than adequate that you can manage. I have chameleons that are far more sensitive and expensive than a veiled ( regardless of price, all animals are deserving on optimal care ) and I rely on babyfood and unsweetened applesauce as a moisture source and part of my fresh gutload, because I have a lot of insects to feed and produce is too labor intensive, sporadically available, takes up tons of room, and is expensive. I also have a very thorough, custom dry gutload that helps cancel the high phosphorus content of the babyfood, but I try to stick towards the butternut squash, sweet potato, and blueberry ones, and avoid the stone fruits (peaches, apricots, plums, nectarines). Its much easier to use babyfood and say a bunch of dandelion greens, than it is to try to concoct a gourmet salad for every feeding. Those are just some ideas and suggestions.

 

[ChamLB]

@Daniel The Chameleon can you start your own thread? This is going to get confusing trying to address two completely different problems. Go to the top of the Health clinic page and click the button to Post New Thread and ask your questions there.

 

[Daniel The Chameleon]

@Daniel The Chameleon can you start your own thread? This is going to get confusing trying to address two completely different problems. Go to the top of the Health clinic page and click the button to Post New Thread and ask your questions there.

Sure

 

[ADotsalot]

Not gout, organ failure! Kidney and/or liver failure.

Well like I said, it shows up out of nowhere then disappears just as quickly. The "neck fat" is now gone again. Could that be a case of organ failure?? Her colors just fine and she moves around just fine, other than occasionally getting her foot stuck on her scar when she walks.

 

[ADotsalot]

With a correct gutload of wet and dry ingredients, you shouldn’t need to supply any additional moisture to your feeders. You can use organic babyfood as a moist gutload and rely on cricket crack or big buffet as a dry gutload and that’s the minimalist approach. Freshly chopped dark, leafy, greens, winter squash, cactus fruits and pads, grape leaves, figs and fig leaves, grated sweet potato, and other fresh produce is an ideal wet gutload, but understandably it is not always possible to supply with busy schedules, seasonal availability, and depending on where you live, so you need to rely on something better than adequate that you can manage. I have chameleons that are far more sensitive and expensive than a veiled ( regardless of price, all animals are deserving on optimal care ) and I rely on babyfood and unsweetened applesauce as a moisture source and part of my fresh gutload, because I have a lot of insects to feed and produce is too labor intensive, sporadically available, takes up tons of room, and is expensive. I also have a very thorough, custom dry gutload that helps cancel the high phosphorus content of the babyfood, but I try to stick towards the butternut squash, sweet potato, and blueberry ones, and avoid the stone fruits (peaches, apricots, plums, nectarines). Its much easier to use babyfood and say a bunch of dandelion greens, than it is to try to concoct a gourmet salad for every feeding. Those are just some ideas and suggestions.

I only have 24 crickets at a time. How quickly do the crickets go through the produce? Or how long should I leave it in there? Does the baby food go bad after a while? And is it not right to just use water as a moisture source? Thank you for all the great ideas will this help her neck get better or will it just not make things worse?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

It COULD make her neck better and prevent further occurrence, but it WILL improve her health and quality of life, regardless.
You can use water, but it’s easy to lose crix to drowning and it’s tedious to keep clean. If you use enough babyfood and dry mix to have it consumed by the middle of the next day and then offered again on the third day, you would do just fine. That’s what I do. If you wash, dry, and cut the produce and place it in a sealed container, with a layer of paper towel in the bottom and in top of the chopped produce, that will keep about a week in the fridge, if you don’t mix in really juicy fruit. Sliced oranges and blueberries, cactus, figs, squash, parsnip, and even bananas can usually be added without it spoiling sooner.

 

[kinyonga]

@ADotsalot said... "Well like I said, it shows up out of nowhere then disappears just as quickly"...does it appear when she's heading down a branch and disappear when she heads up a branch?

You said..."how long should I leave it in there? Does the baby food go bad after a while?" ...it's good to change the moist insect food often somit won't mold because if it does mold and the crickets eat it, it can cause problems and even death for your chameleon.

 

[ADotsalot]

@ADotsalot said... "Well like I said, it shows up out of nowhere then disappears just as quickly"...does it appear when she's heading down a branch and disappear when she heads up a branch?

You said..."how long should I leave it in there? Does the baby food go bad after a while?" ...it's good to change the moist insect food often somit won't mold because if it does mold and the crickets eat it, it can cause problems and even death for your chameleon.

By appearing and disappearing I mean it'll appear one day and the next day it'll be gone. I tried feeding her the first time the neck fat appeared and it never went away while she ate or drank. Weather she was on my hand or on her plant her neck stayed big. I can still see an area in between her two front legs that is little big even now. And she has little fat rolls form, on the side of her neck, when she turns her head. I'm not sure to be worried about those things though. She didn't eat much before the surgery no matter how hard I tried so she was underweight. Now that she's eating a normal amount she's gaining it back. So the rolls could just be a sign of good fat right?

 

[kinyonga]

She definitely is fat...maybe you need to out her on a diet?