Need Help ASAP

[kinyonga]

Your basking temperature is too low...should be in the low to mid 80's F. Lower temperatures slow digestion which can make her not eat as much and may slow other things down as well. I'm still concerned with her not laying all the eggs at once. Females that do this usually have future problems with egglaying.

I would recommend you add other greens (such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, etc), veggies (such as carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc. ) and a bit more fruit (such as berries, melon, pears, etc.) to your insect diet.

Answering the questions as suggested may not lead to a diagnosis...most of us are not vets and can't always make a complete diagnosis because tests have to be done...but we can correct husbandry to help prevent other things from happening and often give you an idea of what is going on.
Sometimes we even diagnose things the vets miss!

 

[Valcakey]

Your basking temperature is too low...should be in the low to mid 80's F. Lower temperatures slow digestion which can make her not eat as much and may slow other things down as well. I'm still concerned with her not laying all the eggs at once. Females that do this usually have future problems with egglaying.

I would recommend you add other greens (such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, etc), veggies (such as carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc. ) and a bit more fruit (such as berries, melon, pears, etc.) to your insect diet.

Answering the questions as suggested may not lead to a diagnosis...most of us are not vets and can't always make a complete diagnosis because tests have to be done...but we can correct husbandry to help prevent other things from happening and often give you an idea of what is going on.
Sometimes we even diagnose things the vets miss!

I appreciate this very much! A lot of the information I received on chameleons came from a blog called Much Ado About Chameleon by a biologist named Olimpia whose life work is to study chameleons which has also become her hobby. On one of her blog posts about females, she states that lowering the basking temperature and strictly regulating food consumption in females is a way to make egg layings more infrequent. Is this just an all around cruel thing to do to them in your opinion?

 

[Andee]

where are you using the moss? She could have eaten some and easily gotten impacted? what type of substrate were you using in the laying bin? how big was the laying bin? A lot of different things cause females to not use lay bins, and it could be as simple as the you have the wrong substrate, the wrong shaped bin, or just the moisture level is off for her. A lot of females are particular about their laying sites and in the wild they would have tons of places to scout and choose from, in captivity they have only what we provide them and they lay in order to find the perfect incubation site, they have no idea that they are laying infertile eggs really.

As far as your supplement schedule did I read right that you are only using calcium with out D3?

 

[Andee]

No, lowering temps and reducing food is what a lot of people do and it is good for their health in the long run because it reduces their egg clutches. But reducing temps is keeping it around 83-84. Males go up to 88-90.

 

[Valcakey]

where are you using the moss? She could have eaten some and easily gotten impacted? what type of substrate were you using in the laying bin? how big was the laying bin? A lot of different things cause females to not use lay bins, and it could be as simple as the you have the wrong substrate, the wrong shaped bin, or just the moisture level is off for her. A lot of females are particular about their laying sites and in the wild they would have tons of places to scout and choose from, in captivity they have only what we provide them and they lay in order to find the perfect incubation site, they have no idea that they are laying infertile eggs really.

As far as your supplement schedule did I read right that you are only using calcium with out D3?

It's not loose moss. They're like thin sheets of golfing green. The laying bin is mostly sandbox sand with dirt mixed in. The mister always keeps it moist enough to build tunnels but not sopping wet. It's an opaque plastic planting pot it's 12 inches deep with a 12 inch diameter. I chose that one because it doesn't narrow too steeply, so the bottom diameter is only minutely smaller than the top diameter. She did lay 35 eggs in the bin about 8 inches down, but then ended dropping 2 more after covering the hole and climbing back up to her branches.

And yes my daily calcium is without D3 because I have read everywhere that the everyday dustings should not have D3. So, I found a vitamin that also has D3, which I use as a dusting twice a month.

 

[kinyonga]

Olympia is actually a member of the forum...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/members/olimpia.6773/

I was actually the one who did this article...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.ca/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

 

[Andee]

What's you supplement that has D3? Is it a multivitamin?

The fact that she dropped eggs afterward shows there are some huge issues, maybe nothing you did, or even something simple that not many other people have problems with and so it's not well known in the hobby. All I know is that no chameleon is like the others, and even though it may be minute, often they don't thrive under the basic care requirements listed. They do fine, but it's up to us after we learn who they are to adjust the care we have to them as individuals to make them thrive and not just survive. (don't mean to make people upset here)

I am just not sure what it is yet... I assume you UVB light is up to date?

Can you get some pictures of the moss? I am not quite sure what it is from the description.

 

[Valcakey]

Olympia is actually a member of the forum...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/members/olimpia.6773/

I was actually the one who did this article...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.ca/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

That's so cool! You're a wonderful writer too

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks...but I'm not sure about that!

 

[Valcakey]

What's you supplement that has D3? Is it a multivitamin?

The fact that she dropped eggs afterward shows there are some huge issues, maybe nothing you did, or even something simple that not many other people have problems with and so it's not well known in the hobby. All I know is that no chameleon is like the others, and even though it may be minute, often they don't thrive under the basic care requirements listed. They do fine, but it's up to us after we learn who they are to adjust the care we have to them as individuals to make them thrive and not just survive. (don't mean to make people upset here)

I am just not sure what it is yet... I assume you UVB light is up to date?

Can you get some pictures of the moss? I am not quite sure what it is from the description.

I would like to assume it's a multivitamin. It's the Reptivite by Zoo Med.

I totally get what you're saying. She is my first chameleon and I was so cocky thinking that I was doing a great job because nothing's gone wrong yet. However, she did JUST lay her first clutch and she's somewhere between 1 year 5 months and 1 year 7 months, which seems pretty old to me.

Yep, UVB is good. It's in a dual dome with the heat bulb and I always keep spares of each. Would you suggest increasing the wattage of my basking bulb, since it's too cold?

I actually tossed the sheets when I removed her laying bin (they were too dirty to justify keeping), but I looked it up and they were the Eco Carpet by Zoo Med.

 

[Valcakey]

Thanks...but I'm not sure about that!

You don't give yourself enough credit. I promise.

 

[Valcakey]

Thanks...but I'm not sure about that!

Also, if I read your article correctly, it's the increase in temperature (along with diet), although not specifically attributed to a basking bulb, that prevents females from forming eggs at all? Sort of like skipping the placebo week in my birth control and starting a new pack so that I can skip my period?

 

[kinyonga]

It's a DEcrease in temperature along with a decrease in diet that seems to make it work...the temperature decrease is only a couple of degrees and it was only done by me to slow the appetite so the female wouldn't be so hungry....but it needs to be done at the right time to have it work right IMHO. Once the female lays eggs...I feed her well for a couple of days to bring her strength back then put her on the diet...low enough that she isn't getting fat but high enough that she is not starving and becoming unhealthy. It's my belief that this lowers the number of follicles that ovulate so the number of eggs produced is lower or stops the follicles completely if you get it "right"... so there's no egg production.

I seem to be able to stop veileds completely from producing eggs but panthers I can only slow down.

 

[Valcakey]

It's a DEcrease in temperature along with a decrease in diet that seems to make it work...the temperature decrease is only a couple of degrees and it was only done by me to slow the appetite so the female wouldn't be so hungry....but it needs to be done at the right time to have it work right IMHO. Once the female lays eggs...I feed her well for a couple of days to bring her strength back then put her on the diet...low enough that she isn't getting fat but high enough that she is not starving and becoming unhealthy. It's my belief that this lowers the number of follicles that ovulate so the number of eggs produced is lower or stops the follicles completely if you get it "right"... so there's no egg production.

I seem to be able to stop veileds completely from producing eggs but panthers I can only slow down.

That's fascinating. I'm a chemistry major in college, but I've always found the inner workings of biology astounding.

 

[kinyonga]

Isn't a lot of biology chemistry of sorts?

 

[Valcakey]

Isn't a lot of biology chemistry of sorts?

Absolutely! Chemistry, Biology, and Physics are the ultimate trifecta

 

[kinyonga]

I always took chemistry and physics and avoided biology 'cause you had to cut things up...until I got reptiles and then I felt I had no choice!

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Oh yes @jannb had already shared her story with me on my other posting. Thank you for your concerns. Really, it's appreciated.

Oh I should have known . I'm very sorry this is happening . I really hope it's not that . I read back and saw you do have a vet appointment. Please let us know how she makes out .

 

[Valcakey]

Oh I should have known . I'm very sorry this is happening . I really hope it's not that . I read back and saw you do have a vet appointment. Please let us know how she makes out .

Absolutely!

 

[Valcakey]

Oh I should have known . I'm very sorry this is happening . I really hope it's not that . I read back and saw you do have a vet appointment. Please let us know how she makes out .

@kinyonga @Kristen Wilkins Well we made it back! She was so good for the vets. I was surprised to see her being handled so well and maintaining a complacent green color! They did X-Rays and an ultrasound to check for retained eggs, but neither showed that there were any. I was also told her bone density is pretty good. I was instructed to increase basking temperature like you guys said and I was given 2 powder mixes that I have to force feed to her daily. She couldn't find any reason as to why she isn't eating, but gave me the tools to make sure she doesn't become malnourished from it.