Need Help for a baby Veiled Cham

[CreepyJenny]

Hello there! I received a call from my friend who has a pair of baby veiled chams. She was very concerned over the fact that her little male has apparently become unable to walk properly. His feet look broken and he is walking on his elbows. She doesn't know what's wrong with him but he seems to be in a lot of pain. She does not currently have internet connection so I offered to post for some help for her while she tries to locate a local herp/exotics vet. I'm sorry I don't have the complete specs. These are her first Chams and they were purchased recently, around the end of July at a herp expo.

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - glass type with screen top. 12"l x 12"w x 24"h
* Lighting - Heat lamp, no uv lighting
* Temperature - Currently mid-high 80's, mid-high 70's at night.
* Humidity - Not measured. Misted twice daily.
* Plants - No live plants. Silk plants only.
* Placement - No info.
* Location - Socal, currently hot and dry.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Two young Veiled Chameleons.
* Handling - At least once daily.
* Feeding - Crickets, 10-15 between the two daily.
* Supplements - Rep-Cal Phosphorus & Vit D3 free 4x weekly: Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamin 1x monthly: Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D3 Phosphorous Free Ultrafine powder 2x monthly
* Watering - Mist and water drip 2x daily
* Fecal Description - look like teeny tiny bird poops, not watery or runny. Have not had a fecal test.
* History - Purchased in late july, were very young only about 1.5" long, now about 3-3.5" long. Have been seemingly healthy, with male starting to exhibit some territorial behavior against it's sibling.
* Current Problem - Aug. 30th- noted that chameleons were checked in the morning and were both fine as usual. Owner received phone call from sister saying that one of them was walking funny. After returning home and inspecting owner noticed that it seemed as though this chameleon could not stand, could not walk properly/using elbows to walk instead of feet. Described as feet looking broken. Wants to know if it's possible that the chameleon was somehow injured or injured itself or if the is an internal/bone/joint problem cause by maintenance.

She sent me some pix via cellphone so I apologize for the poor quality though I do believe you can see some of what she is concerned about as the forelegs look somewhat twisted.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I can get more info if necessary, this is all I have on hand atm. Thank you!

 

[Surfrat]

Two possible problems from the looks of him:

MBD from lack of calcium absorption.

Someone yanked him off of his perch and damaged his legs? (Improper Handleing)

Just my uneducated guesses though!

 

[jannb]

MBD take to the vet ASAP
Where do you live?

You friend needs to dust with plain calcium at every feeding. The vet will give calcium injection.

You need this UVB light and it needs to be on the chams 12 hours a day
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...por-bulbs/-/zoo-med-18-repti-sun-50-uvb-bulb/


They need to be in seprate "all screen" cages. There's two excellent chameleon vets in the LA area.


Dr. Tom Greek
23687 Via Del Rio
Yorba Linda, CA 92887
714-463-1190 or 866-940-7028

Dr. Geoff Stein
(Dr. Shipp's Animal Hospital)
351 N. Foothill Rd.
Beverly Hills, CA 90210
310-550-0101


There's two links below with great veiled chameleon info:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleo...max-results=11


Another good blog:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/nee...help-baby-veiled-29772/blogs...ging-home.html



Info on MBD

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-b-metabolic-bone.html


This link is for the calcium that these guys have to have. Tou need the 1st, 3rd and 5th one. The first one dust feeders with two times a month, the third one dust feeders at every feeding except the days you use one on the other supplements and the fifth one you should use once a month. You can buy them here: http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/

 

[Cjd713]

97% Sure that it's MBD, you need to take him to the vet ASAP Poor little guy Keep us posted, and good luck

 

[laurie]

If both chams have been together take both to the vet as the little girl is also sure to have MBD. The vet can get both of them on the right tract. Best of luck.

 

[CreepyJenny]

Thanks for the input everyone.

jennb, the second and third links don't work but the first and last do.
The last is very helpful. I very much appreciate your input, it's very useful, especially the vet referrals.

To be very honest, I thought my friend was taking excellent care of her chams. I know the enclosure was not appropriate but having started with what they had they have been saving up to buy a proper enclosure for them and have already been noticing some aggression between them so they have mentioned separating them. I simply had no idea that they did not have a UV light for them and it surprised me. I feel bad for all of them, the chams and their keepers. She feels really bad and hopes he'll be ok.

 

[laurie]

We will all be out here hoping right along with you that things will work out well for your friend and her chams. (fingers crossed)

 

[kinyonga]

Here are some sites that might help...
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=102
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html

Exposure to UVB allows the chameleon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system. Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion so that plays a part in nutrient absorption.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos., dusting at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder helps to make up for this.

I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Its controversial as to whether all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene (prOformed) to vitamin A so some people give a little prEformed vitamin A once in a while. Excess prEformed vit. A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and can push the chameleon towards MBD.

I also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can also build up in the system...so don't overdo it.

Gutloading/feeding the insects with a nutritious diet is important too.

Calcium, D3, vitamin A and phos. all play important parts in bone health and need to be in balance. You need to look at what is fed to the insects, what is fed to the chameleon and what supplements are used.

When a chameleon has MBD, its important to get the calcium back in balance and also to change the husbandry so that it will stay there. A vet can give the chameleons calcium injections and when the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin can be given to draw the calcium back into the bones.

Some of the damage is not reversible...bone deformities, for instance...but if the corrections are made in time, the chameleon can live a pretty long life.

 

[Jono]

Shame poor little guy!

With the the right TLC he can still live a good, healthy life so just keep at it!