Need help please

[MegaWattz]

Hello,

My boy Char has been acting slightly lethargic since friday but full blown today. Not climbing, just resting head on branches and hanging arms listlessly.
First thought was MBD went to replace my uvb light a T8, however pet store had none thanks to corona, bought a T5 hood with a 10% bulb. Tried pulling him out and feeding him some wax worms dipped in d3. (I d3 at the recommended every two weeks). While feeding him he suddenly took an enormous dump in my hand, way bigger than anything else he's ever passed. Perhaps an undigested superworm from yesterday's treats? Fresh poop pics for comparison the top is his normal size, bottom is what he dumped in my hand.
I really thought I had all of this down but if he has MBD no idea what to do for him now I have more crickets coming hopefully by tomorrow but have been subbing with wax and superworms to ration out the few crickets I have left.

Any assistance is appreciated

 

[Hickswife42]

All I can help with is that I do know the superworms should be given as a treat because the superworms have this exoskeleton that's hard for them to break down. Sometimes my cham will go bathroom in his water dish and I have to dump it out in our toilet and sometimes his poo will break apart in the process and you can sometimes see the after effects of the superworm.

 

[Beman]

Hello,

My boy Char has been acting slightly lethargic since friday but full blown today. Not climbing, just resting head on branches and hanging arms listlessly.
First thought was MBD went to replace my uvb light a T8, however pet store had none thanks to corona, bought a T5 hood with a 10% bulb. Tried pulling him out and feeding him some wax worms dipped in d3. (I d3 at the recommended every two weeks). While feeding him he suddenly took an enormous dump in my hand, way bigger than anything else he's ever passed. Perhaps an undigested superworm from yesterday's treats? Fresh poop pics for comparison the top is his normal size, bottom is what he dumped in my hand.
I really thought I had all of this down but if he has MBD no idea what to do for him now I have more crickets coming hopefully by tomorrow but have been subbing with wax and superworms to ration out the few crickets I have left.

Any assistance is appreciated

Hi there please fill out this form with as much detail as possible so you can get help from the experienced members. The T5 fixture is better then the T8. Did you get a 5.0 or 10.0 bulb? image shows a 5.0 bulb. Also what is the distance from the highest basking branch to the top of the cage where the fixture is sitting?

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Beman]

All I can help with is that I do know the superworms should be given as a treat because the superworms have this exoskeleton that's hard for them to break down. Sometimes my cham will go bathroom in his water dish and I have to dump it out in our toilet and sometimes his poo will break apart in the process and you can sometimes see the after effects of the superworm.

actually mealworms are the ones we do not feed due to a high chitin ratio and being a poor source of nutrition. Superworms are given as a treat because chams get hooked on them and they are not a suitable staple feeder. This may help you. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/images/

 

[Hickswife42]

actually mealworms are the ones we do not feed due to a high chitin ratio and being a poor source of nutrition. Superworms are given as a treat because chams get hooked on them and they are not a suitable staple feeder. This may help you. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/images/

I'm new to being a cham owner and have done a lot of research and love learning new things about them, I know they get hooked on them pretty fast but I've always been told that so thank you for the info!

 

[MegaWattz]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Hybrid Panther, Male, Approximately 1 year old (March-April 2019). How long has it been in your care? Little less than a year, May 2019.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Every other day to once a week, it varies.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Crickets (~10 1/2 inch, 5 days a week, gut load repashy bug burger) Waxworms and superworms now and then.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • (Repashy All-in-one (as recommended by breeder) at all feeding but 2 d3 days per month. d3 is exoterra calcium + d3).
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • (Mistking 2 nozzle setup, 1 long shower a little after lights on and then intermittent showers throughout the day with a medium shower at noon to 1.) He can be seen drinking but lies there as he does so.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • (dark brown to a light brown glob with a white trail, pictures above show great difference in size between today and yesterday, never tested).
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • (Hybrid panther, Breeder: kammerflage creations.)

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • (Screen with window cellaphane for humidity retention on sides. Overall 6 ft H x 2ft W x 2 ft long; usable space for cham 4ftx2ftx2ft).
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • (Exo terra basking 100 W, T8-5%, just went and changed to a T5-5%, breeder said 10% waaaay too high, lights on ~9 a.m. off ~8 p.m.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • (Exoterra thermometer, 83-90 in basking spot, may cooler lower areas, general overnight temp between 60 and 70.)
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • (Exoterra thermometer, kept up by mistking system and cellaphane on cage sides ~70% after a misting, dries out to about 35% due to the dry winter currently).
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • (1 bromelaid and 1 golden pothos)
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • (Not near vents or high traffic pretty much has a room to himself, in a corner near window, approximately 6 foot tall)
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
  • Southern Michigan

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
(Friday started being lethargic, did get pissed off much when handled, Saturday seen slumped on a branch all day, today same slumped posture, got him to eat 1 superworm and a couple wax worms from tongs, removed him to check arms for breaks, took a verrrrry large poop in my hand, put back in enclosure with crickets and switched new UV hood to the 5% bulb after breeder advised my the 10% I just bought would make him sicker.)

 

[MegaWattz]

Today

 

[MegaWattz]

A month or two ago.

 

[MegaWattz]

His enclosure.

 

[Gingero]

Nothing is standing out to me as obviously wrong (the Kammers know what they are doing). Which Repashy all-in-one are you using? How is he now that he took that big poop?

 

[MegaWattz]

Still lethargic , Kammer responded to me and indicated that perhaps I was doing supplements wrong that the rephasy calcium all in one should be the only thing I am using. That i should not be using d3 2 times per month b/c the rephashy covers it all, but that 2 days out of 30 really enough to make him sick? I'm so disappointed in myself I spent motnhs studying before I bought my guy and now he sick because I perhaps messed up by adding d3 2 times a month? Not to be a downer but this cham is my pride and joy and with everything going on in the world rn is devastating to me that I have made him sick.

 

[Prince of Duval]

Still lethargic , Kammer responded to me and indicated that perhaps I was doing supplements wrong that the rephasy calcium all in one should be the only thing I am using. That i should not be using d3 2 times per month b/c the rephashy covers it all, but that 2 days out of 30 really enough to make him sick? I'm so disappointed in myself I spent motnhs studying before I bought my guy and now he sick because I perhaps messed up by adding d3 2 times a month? Not to be a downer but this cham is my pride and joy and with everything going on in the world rn is devastating to me that I have made him sick.

I don’t think D3 was the issue. I’m assuming your all in one is Repashy Cacium Plus which has 20,000iu of D3. The Kammers are giving this at every feeding with no reported health issues. The other calcium plus D3 product you were giving has less D3 than the Repashy Calcium Plus.

 

[mrfixit01]

I'm not expert but having raised 4 veileds, nothing jumps out at me right off. I've noticed that during the winters they don't eat as much and sense the weather changes. I also use Repashy bug burger and their Calcium Plus and I dust feeders every feeding. It could be possible that your's got some dirt from feeding with an open pot. I did away with potted plants and all mine are hanging on the back wall. Could he maybe have fallen at some point and injured himself? It shouldn't happen often but it does happen. Do you have a vet that does reptiles and herps nearby? I'd get him checked out, just to be safe. It may just be a digestion issue but offer him some water drops to keep him hydrated for now and it may pass. Do you use Reptisafe water treatment in his water? It adds electrolytes and minerals. Keep your results posted on here and let us know what results you get. We learn from each other. Best wishes.

 

[Beman]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Hybrid Panther, Male, Approximately 1 year old (March-April 2019). How long has it been in your care? Little less than a year, May 2019.
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Every other day to once a week, it varies.
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Crickets (~10 1/2 inch, 5 days a week, gut load repashy bug burger) Waxworms and superworms now and then.
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • (Repashy All-in-one (as recommended by breeder) at all feeding but 2 d3 days per month. d3 is exoterra calcium + d3).
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • (Mistking 2 nozzle setup, 1 long shower a little after lights on and then intermittent showers throughout the day with a medium shower at noon to 1.) He can be seen drinking but lies there as he does so.
• Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • (dark brown to a light brown glob with a white trail, pictures above show great difference in size between today and yesterday, never tested).
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • (Hybrid panther, Breeder: kammerflage creations.)

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • (Screen with window cellaphane for humidity retention on sides. Overall 6 ft H x 2ft W x 2 ft long; usable space for cham 4ftx2ftx2ft).
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • (Exo terra basking 100 W, T8-5%, just went and changed to a T5-5%, breeder said 10% waaaay too high, lights on ~9 a.m. off ~8 p.m.
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • (Exoterra thermometer, 83-90 in basking spot, may cooler lower areas, general overnight temp between 60 and 70.)
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • (Exoterra thermometer, kept up by mistking system and cellaphane on cage sides ~70% after a misting, dries out to about 35% due to the dry winter currently).
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • (1 bromelaid and 1 golden pothos)
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • (Not near vents or high traffic pretty much has a room to himself, in a corner near window, approximately 6 foot tall)
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • Southern Michigan

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
(Friday started being lethargic, did get pissed off much when handled, Saturday seen slumped on a branch all day, today same slumped posture, got him to eat 1 superworm and a couple wax worms from tongs, removed him to check arms for breaks, took a verrrrry large poop in my hand, put back in enclosure with crickets and switched new UV hood to the 5% bulb after breeder advised my the 10% I just bought would make him sicker.)

So everything the breeder is telling you is absolutely correct. You need to drop the additional D3 and only use the 5.0 T5 UVB bulb. Did he start acting sick before or after the upgraded lighting? How is he doing today? My only concern is the Calcium plus not being the Low D version with the upgraded lighting. T5 has a more powerful output of UVB then a T8. I know the Kammers have been working with testing the repashy with T5's. You might ask them their thoughts on switching to the Repashy calcium plus LoD with a T5 uvb. .

With the fogger you are running this only at night correct?
I would get a fecal just to rule out a parasite issue as well.

Additionally I would start cutting back his feeders. 5 days a week with 10 crickets each time is a lot for a 1 year old. Everything else in your form looks spot on. So you are doing a fantastic job. These things happen with Chameleons. One small detail can throw off everything for them.

 

[MegaWattz]

So everything the breeder is telling you is absolutely correct. You need to drop the additional D3 and only use the 5.0 T5 UVB bulb. Did he start acting sick before or after the upgraded lighting? How is he doing today? My only concern is the Calcium plus not being the Low D version with the upgraded lighting. T5 has a more powerful output of UVB then a T8. I know the Kammers have been working with testing the repashy with T5's. You might ask them their thoughts on switching to the Repashy calcium plus LoD with a T5 uvb. .

With the fogger you are running this only at night correct?
I would get a fecal just to rule out a parasite issue as well.

Additionally I would start cutting back his feeders. 5 days a week with 10 crickets each time is a lot for a 1 year old. Everything else in your form looks spot on. So you are doing a fantastic job. These things happen with Chameleons. One small detail can throw off everything for them.

All of these problems started before I made any changes to the setup Char has had for the past year. (T8 with Calcium plus all in one repashy).

I only switched to the T5 yesterday and that is only because that is all the pet store had, no T8 bulbs. Kammers said this should be good but to make sure to use the 5% bulb it came with not the 10% I panicked and bought.

Took to a vet this a.m. Not sure how good the vet was as I could not be inside due to pandemic and they didnt tell me a bunch of info until I just called back about 20 min ago.
They felt vitamin issues and gave 2 injections and gave me a soultion to give daily for 14 days.
What they didnt say until I called back was they were confident Char is female due to lack of hind leg burs.
When I asked if she was trying to lay eggs then they said they considered that but did not feel it was this. (Never seen char lay eggs, but put a coco fiber nest in enclosure just now regardless)

Had the fecal samples pictures in my original post. They also didnt tell me they were sending these to labs until I called back a bit ago, so Ive worked myself into a tizzy with all this new info.

 

[MegaWattz]

So everything the breeder is telling you is absolutely correct. You need to drop the additional D3 and only use the 5.0 T5 UVB bulb. Did he start acting sick before or after the upgraded lighting? How is he doing today? My only concern is the Calcium plus not being the Low D version with the upgraded lighting. T5 has a more powerful output of UVB then a T8. I know the Kammers have been working with testing the repashy with T5's. You might ask them their thoughts on switching to the Repashy calcium plus LoD with a T5 uvb. .

With the fogger you are running this only at night correct?
I would get a fecal just to rule out a parasite issue as well.

Additionally I would start cutting back his feeders. 5 days a week with 10 crickets each time is a lot for a 1 year old. Everything else in your form looks spot on. So you are doing a fantastic job. These things happen with Chameleons. One small detail can throw off everything for them.

As to the fogger, yes only at night and not terribly often given that my room hold humidity well, I just do it occasionally to boost humidity a little.

 

[kinyonga]

Panther chameleon makes do not have Spurs...so the vet doesn't know much about chameleons. I think you need a different vet.

Do you know what they gave the chameleon in the injections? What specifically did they give you to give it at home?

 

[MegaWattz]

Injections of vitamin A, B, C, D.

They gave me an antibiotic.
I did not have any control over what they did as they would not let me in due to the pandemic.

 

[Beman]

Please tell @kinyonga what the antibiotic was that they gave. I am very worried that they tried telling you this was a female. You have a boy hun and they had no idea what they were talking about.

 

[Beman]

As to the fogger, yes only at night and not terribly often given that my room hold humidity well, I just do it occasionally to boost humidity a little.

Ok do not run during the day if it is running into the cage. You will get a perfect combo for a Respiratory infection. Heat from lights with fogging creates hot moist air that they are breathing in. So only at night when the lights are off and your temps drop below 70 degrees.