Need some accurate facts on dubia vs orange headed Eublaberus Posticus vs. Blaptica dubia

[Franquixote]

This is a revisit to a previous thread- is there an entomologist out there or someone that has fact-based info on the nutritional differences?
After a year of searching I am still only getting anecdotal evidence that the differ significantly (or even slightly really) in nutritional value. And some of the info is conficting. For example IMO there is no way that the orange heads have "better meat to shell ratio" - the orange heads shell seems much thicker.
This is a bigger deal than you might think, taking care of 2 colonies of roaches instead of one means a significant amount of extra work and cost in terms of how I gut load and care for my feeders.

I really want to see some scientifically proven evidence that their nutritional value makes this worthwhile,

If anyone knows where to find an entomologist please let me know. Otherwise I will continue to do the legwork myself and find a university or something that is known for entomology and track down a pro.

Thanks!

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I really want to see some scientifically proven evidence that their nutritional value makes this worthwhile,

I don't have jack for you concerning a scientific study on which roach is better. Don't read any further if that proof is what you need.





On the other hand, I've been keeping chameleons since before there were companies selling a variety of insects to choose from. I had to catch my own food items back before Malathion started getting sprayed everywhere.... back then it was either crickets or mealworms. As a result I put a lot of effort into what food items would be best. Most of this was by trial and error, what did an animal get fatter on and do well with for one example.

Yes I used to catch and keep a colony of the local roaches. Hated that since they could climb glass and you're always afraid of any getting loose. I used to grow vegetables just so I could attract bugs! I used to look for companies in ads I could buy my bugs from ... I was happy as hell once the internet was invented and I could find other sources.

I used the Dubia for years. My chameleons did alright with them. I started using the orange heads years ago and found them to be even better. Per roach they seem to weigh a little more and have a bit more of a round shape. I can safely say my Parson's gain more weight with orange heads than Dubia since that is something I paid close attention to. Another thing I paid attention to is their crap! My animals have a more robust crap with those orange heads. They take a dump bigger than a live dwarf chameleon. I do not keep Dubia anymore.

If you want a variety, I go with entirely different types of bugs..like a mantis or a silkworm. Multiple types of roaches are just not that useful imo. Also, gut load! Always feed your bugs the good stuff from the grocery store! That goes into your cham right? People fail to remember that one trick for some reason.....

Anyway, good luck on that statistical breakdown of the nutritional value of a bug. They are out there but then where do you find a detailed statistical breakdown of what type of nutrients a given species of chameleon requires? I haven't seen that yet worth a Parson crap. One goes hand in hand with the other is my point.

I stopped trying to science the shit out of these neat animals early in my life and instead tried to provide them with a variety combined with my own observations, and a little common sense based on their homeland.

Good luck. (I'm not putting you down either, just shooting holes in the value of a Scientifically Proven breakdown of what is in a bug.)

 

[Franquixote]

Fair enough. I am going to keep looking for the answer but more people need to understand your point about gut loading.
I am trying right now to hook up my local reptile shop with what I call the "Benebug". I gave him about 1000 dubia and 1000 orange heads free of charge just because I like the guy and want his store to succeed!
None if the info is BS- actually do all this and find they are superior by far to plain old feeders from the pet store!

 

[insectovore]

There's a time lag between when a feeder becomes popular and when enough studies are published that you can begin to see if there is a consistent pattern. For example, with crickets and mealworms studies on gutloading them and what effect it has is available and has been replicated more than once. For some of the roaches I use, red runners/dubia, I have found some info but there is less. One study I found recently compared several roach species but none of the species they tested were kept and fed in a consistent manner. Since we know the "gut" contents alter the end result, the study was much less useful to me since the methodology was pretty flawed.