Neonates dying in eggs. Help please

[Paul R]

Good day everybody.

I need help and advice. I have noticed that a lot of my veiled and panther eggs are dying, this is at a late stage as the neonates are fully formed and ready to hatch but they never do. Its as if they get stuck in the egg and can’t get out so they just die there.
I use a bar fridge that I converted into an incubator because I have so many batches. I place the eggs in small lunch boxes with a mixture of two cups of vermiculite to one cup of water. I have never had a problem till now. I use to use the “bran marie” incubation method with great success and switched to the fridge incubator recently.
Has anyone had so high mortality rates? What causes it? And how can I stop this problem?
I have lots of fully developed neonates dying in their eggs before they get a chance to hatch and need to stop this.

Thank you

 

[kinyonga]

What temperature are you incubating them at?
When you take a fist full of the vermiculite and squeeze it does more than a drop or two of water come out? Is it the coarse vermiculite?
Are their tongues hanging out?
Do the eggs get any windows (brownish thin looking marks) on them?
What's the "bran marie" method??

 

[KCcham]

Do you see the eggs pipping?

How long did you wait to cut the eggs open if they did not pip?

Off topic, we were in Jo'burg awhile back and had a great time!

 

[Paul R]

What temperature are you incubating them at?
When you take a fist full of the vermiculite and squeeze it does more than a drop or two of water come out? Is it the coarse vermiculite?
Are their tongues hanging out?
Do the eggs get any windows (brownish thin looking marks) on them?
What's the "bran marie" method??

They fluctuate between 24-26 degrees celcius, a bit higher now that its summer.

its not coasre vermicultite and yes more than a drop of water comes out.

As for windows, no they done, but the eggs do seem like they have stretch marks, if that makes sense.

There tongues hang out yes, once i put the egg open, the neonate is already dead with its tongue out.

The bran marie method is the use of fish tank being insulated and water heated inside to maintain a gradient.

 

[Paul R]

Do you see the eggs pipping?

How long did you wait to cut the eggs open if they did not pip?

Off topic, we were in Jo'burg awhile back and had a great time!

No they dont pip, but they collapse and are ready to hatch..... usually the egg is cut by the neonate but it simply cant get out or something.

Yeah Joburg nightlife is great..... but this is not a place to live, its getting worse everyday

 

[KCcham]

No they dont pip, but they collapse and are ready to hatch..... usually the egg is cut by the neonate but it simply cant get out or something.

Yeah Joburg nightlife is great..... but this is not a place to live, its getting worse everyday

I had that same thing happen to the very first clutch of Panthers I had. I know that is of absolutely no help to you,but to know that I have been in the same position.


We were in Jo'burg for work, but we lived with some friends while we were there and I can understand what you mean about living there.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

this has happened to me. The first time I had veiled eggs. (back when they were going for $125.00 each at two weeks). We kept them way too moist. Watered them every day! I was 15 and had no clue. They swelled up to nearly round, appeared to be stretched out as well. They all got to be near full term, but the egg ruptured early. They didn't cut the egg themselves,it just ruptured.

 

[kinyonga]

If the substrate is too moist the eggs seem to take on too much water and the neonate suffocates in the egg. Are you sure they pipped or did the egg just burst?? Pipping should be a star shaped cut in the end of the egg and if they burst they often burst on the side of the egg.

 

[Paul R]

I had that same thing happen to the very first clutch of Panthers I had. I know that is of absolutely no help to you,but to know that I have been in the same position.


We were in Jo'burg for work, but we lived with some friends while we were there and I can understand what you mean about living there.

Ok, atleast i know im not the only one, and that this does happen.... Thanks

A lot of people are moving out of South Africa, well those tht have EU passports (thank god im Deutsch)! Its just that this place is becoming a political circus, at any 24 hour period Johannesburg has the highest rapes and murders than anywhere else on earth! makes you wonder hahaha... as soon as i finish studies im out of here.

 

[Paul R]

If the substrate is too moist the eggs seem to take on too much water and the neonate suffocates in the egg. Are you sure they pipped or did the egg just burst?? Pipping should be a star shaped cut in the end of the egg and if they burst they often burst on the side of the egg.

Ok thanks for the reply, ill check all my vermiculite if there is too much water.... And yes the eggs are burst on their side, just one slit

 

[kinyonga]

It sounds like the substrate is too moist.

 

[eisentrauti]

I think that the water potential is the problem. But I cannot go further here, my experiences with incubation are very very limited. Too much water can be a problem because of the difficult concentration of ions in and outside the egg. Osmose/diffusion create here a big problem.
@Paul: Is your German good enough to read books about egg incubation ?
Here's a book about incubation of reptile eggs from Gunther Köhler:
http://www.amazon.de/Inkubation-von...0113/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287942954&sr=8-1

 

[kinyonga]

Wish I could read German.

 

[eisentrauti]

Wish I could read German.

Nobody stops you if you want to learn it