New Chameleon owner, I need help.

[Shivar102]

Long post, srry.

I'm an experienced reptile owner and have had jobs taking care of other reptiles, so I've down lots of research on every reptile I know. My bearded dragon passed away 2 months ago and I decided to try a chameleon this time around. I bought my Chameleon, Thug, 3 days ago at a ReptileExpo.

Thug is a Fischer's Chameleon, male. I don't know the age but that can be deciphered in the pics. He came with some flaws (nubby horn and burns on top of head.)

I use a Reptisun 5.0 tube UVB and 75w heat bulb. My temps under basking are about 85 degrees and my humidity is always around or higher than 60%. Screen cage, 2x2x4. Has misting system and fogger due to how hard it is to maintain humidity where I am, but It is improving and I'm adjusting to get the measurements right. He eats, but not a lot. Maybe 4-5 hand fed crickets everyday but I gotta sit there for 30 mins.

Thug HATES his enclosure; absolutely despises it. Whenever he is in his enclosure, he is dark brown and stressed, it is very rare seeing him calm and bright. The only time he is not stressed is when he is on my arm or climbing the house plant in my living room. (I cant put this said house plant in the enclosure because it is too big..) I thought nothing of it as first, thinking he was just adjusting to his new surroundings. I didn't handle him much at all and left him be for the most part. I caught him a few times enjoying himself basking, and hiding in his hibiscus tree, so I figured everything was fine.

I just caught him walking on the bottom of his enclosure, brown and dark, and I instantly got upset. I opened his cage and he had no problems climbing up on my hand. Second he was on my arm, he turned bright again.


Some more info:
He hated the tank so cluttered, so I took out some plants and fake vines to open the tank up, and he seemed to enjoy that more. So the cage was more full before these photos. There is no substrate.

I've been looking for a nice Umbrella tree to put in there to replace all the sticks and hibiscus.

I am so worried that I don't have the capabilities of taking care of such a delicate creature that I'm ready to find a new home and just go back to beardies. I just want this animal to be happy and if I can't do that I'll be very upset...

Thank you!

 

[hagmegsis]

I'm no expert so I could be completely wrong, but perhaps he prefers larger spaces. His dimensions seem resonable though. He may have been given more space at his previous home. Or, perhaps he prefers the light outside the terrarium. Honestly though, my opinion could be way off.

 

[cyberlocc]

I am going to make a few guesses here from my limited knowledge of these guys. Hopefully someone more experience chimes in.

First of all, get him to a vet ASAP. Broken horn and the type he is, he is likely WC not CB. (If he has parasites dont treat them yet, wait awhile I would just get an idea of what to expect.)

secondly your temps are too high, I am pretty sure his basking should be like 80 tops (maybe less) also what is the bottom temp of his cage.

Third I do not think 60% is enough if thats the usual, I think they like a long time with water like 30 mins 2 times a day, where humidity is 100% for a long time then a sudden drop for spikes.

He could also not like his cage if he is WC, He shouldn't need a big cage.

I can tell you that is a montane species and was a bad choice for a first chameleon honestly.

I wish you luck and hopefully an Expert chimes in.

 

[Lathis]

Do you know for sure if he is Wild Caught or Captive Bred? I would be surprised if a fishers were CB, so he might be a wild caught chameleon. If that were the case, it would not surprise me if he hated being caged. I have also read that fischers can be very active chameleons, so he could be feeling overly confined. I personally don't have any experience with fischers, but we have several forum members here who do. However, I can say, if you are dedicated to figuring out what he needs, you can absolutely care for him. Chameleons are not necessarily "delicate", they just have particular care needs that are different from other reptiles.

For now, can you safely let him free range? For a few hours a day, let him hang out on the tree outside his cage? If you set up a vine that connects the two so that he can come and go at his own preference, he may stop feeling so trapped. Obviously, no cats or dogs around and keep anything that could hurt him out of the space.

Edit: Good advice above on temperatures. He will also want LOTS of water. For now, until someone with experience chimes in, I would recommend keeping him like a Jacksons - cooler temperatures and lots of water. This will be very different care from your beardies, so don't worry about him getting cold. Chameleons, especially montane (mountainous) species, take cooler temperatures will no problem.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/

Edit #2: Do you have a misting system or dripper set up for him? He doesn't look bad in the photo you attached, but keeping him hydrated will be very important. I wouldn't worry if he doesn't eat for as much as a week, so long as he has regular access to dripping water and good humidity.

 

[cyberlocc]

Do you know for sure if he is Wild Caught or Captive Bred? I would be surprised if a fishers were CB, so he might be a wild caught chameleon. If that were the case, it would not surprise me if he hated being caged. I have also read that fischers can be very active chameleons, so he could be feeling overly confined. I personally don't have any experience with fischers, but we have several forum members here who do. However, I can say, if you are dedicated to figuring out what he needs, you can absolutely care for him. Chameleons are not necessarily "delicate", they just have particular care needs that is different from other reptiles.

For now, can you safely let him free range? For a few hours a day, let him hang out on the tree outside his cage? If you set up a vine that connects the two so that he can come and go at his own preference, he may stop feeling so trapped. Obviously, no cats or dogs around and keep anything that could hurt him out of the space.

Would free ranging him be a good idea?

From what I am finding Fischer are extremely private. They do not want to be watched, touched, bothered, photographed, nothing. And doing any of that stresses them very badly (one of the hardest parts of keeping them apparently)

Until an expert can chime you may want to look at this thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/new-dwarf-fischers-chameleon.134069/

Another issue you will see is there is alot of chams that are sold as fischers, are not fischers. though they all have similar care.

 

[KLowery88]

I believe @jpowell86 has one of the same species, though I could be wrong. Maybe he has some advice that might help.

 

[Lathis]

Would free ranging him be a good idea?
From what I am finding Fischer are extremely private. They do not want to be watched, touched, bothered, photographed, nothing. And doing any of that stresses them very badly (one of the hardest parts of keeping them apparently)
Until an expert can chime you may want to look at this thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/new-dwarf-fischers-chameleon.134069/
Another issue you will see is there is alot of chams that are sold as fischers, are not fischers. though they all have similar care.

All good points.

If he were stressing in the cage and he could safely free range on a plant, I would give him the option for some time out each day - that's why i suggested the vine, so it can be his decision, but I wouldn't free range him permanently (unless I had a dedicated set up to do so properly). I totally agree to let him have privacy and space as he gets settled and comfortable in his new territory. All this with the caveat that I have not kept Fischers and have no direct experience with them. @jpowell86 and @jajeanpierre might both be great references because of their recent experience with imports and WC chams. I know lots of other members have good experience, too, so I'm not trying to leave anyone out. @ponders may have (or have had) a fischers, too.

 

[Andee]

If he is getting stressed out by being in the cage I agree with Lathis to open up his cage and allow him to free range at his discretion for a few hours a day. Just because the generalization of fischer's chameleons is privacy does not however mean this individual does well inside a cage. Especially since he is most likely wild caught and from the sounds of it has not had a good experience being captive. With his broken horn and burn.

 

[cyberlocc]

If he is getting stressed out by being in the cage I agree with Lathis to open up his cage and allow him to free range at his discretion for a few hours a day. Just because the generalization of fischer's chameleons is privacy does not however mean this individual does well inside a cage. Especially since he is most likely wild caught and from the sounds of it has not had a good experience being captive. With his broken horn and burn.

The burn is likely from being captive. However I think the broken horns usually happen in the wild or on the way from waht I have always read. That is usually a sign of a WC, and since its a Fischers I am pretty much certain its a WC.

 

[Andee]

I thought the broken horns happened when they were caught?

 

[KLowery88]

It's hard to tell from the photo, but there could also be a chance the smaller horns mean he's a juvenile. Again, someone with more Kinyongia experience will have to chime in.

 

[cyberlocc]

I thought the broken horns happened when they were caught?

I think It can that too, Forgot that one . I think we can all agree though broken horns usually means WC .

It's hard to tell from the photo, but there could also be a chance the smaller horns mean he's a juvenile. Again, someone with more Kinyongia experience will have to chime in.

IDK but isnt he a little big to be a juvi? Some close up of the horns and maybe the cham on a ruler or something may help? I think these guys are fairly small always 8-10 inches max?

At any rate I would still get a fecal no matter what. He was show bought, he is a fischers like cham, and the horn (maybe) the odds are he is wild caught or at least infected.

However OP, when you get the fecal do not let the Vet treat it, tell them to hold off for a few months. I think these guys are similar to Mellers and the likes (montanes) and a sudden crash in parasites while being stressed can prove fatal from what I have heard.

Though again I am far far from an expert so take other advice over mine for sure.

Maybe @Extensionofgreen can chime in, I dont know if he has experience with this species but I know he does Montanes.

 

[jpowell86]

Yeah, the poor little guy has some broken rostral processes. That is never any good, but it happens when K. multituberculata's are imported.

The size cage you have for him is plenty. The one thing I will tell you is that your temps are way higher than I ever run on my multi's. He might be fretting from that...in fact, he more than likely is fretting from that. They are from Tanzania and Kenya in the montane areas. This being said, I like to keep my guy in the 68 - 76 degree range. I offer a basking spot with a 25w bulb. That is it. They will usually bask in the morning and that is the extent of their use of it. They will sometimes come back to it when I shower them heavily. But that's neither her no there. In their natural habitat, temps rarely get to 85 degrees.

For instance, it was 67 degrees outside today and drizzly. I let mine sit outside all day. They prefer those ranges of temps much better. So I would recommend that being your first move. Also, what is your misting schedule? They love water, water and more water. I have found that the more water I give them, the better off they are. Now, I am not saying keep the cage constantly saturated like an enclosure for a cloud forest dweller, but moist with dry off periods.

Multi's can be skittish. Out of all my chameleons, they are the ones I make great efforts not to hold. They will try to flee and jump straight off of anything. I have found this behavior to be much more prominent in my males than females.

So, overall advice would include: drop temps both ambient and basking. Make sure you have a ten degree nightly drop in temps.(this is a must IMO). Up the water intake and let him be for a couple of weeks.

 

[Shivar102]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I was having a huge issue finding specific information on Fischer's so this is great. I already switched to a lower bulb wattage.

I have a fogger and a misting system that goes every hour for 30 seconds. I may have to also include a dripper now to keep the humidity up, but I'll try covering some sides of the cage to trap moisture in.

It would make a lot of sense to me if he was wild caught. But that just makes things much harder for me lmfao. I will make an appointment with the vet asap. I take him out for a few hours everyday like he wants and let him enjoy his tree in the living room to make him happy, so I'll continue to do that.

 

[Daypaul]

My veiled, Blanche was very active in her cage when I first got her, to the point I thought she would enjoy more room to climb. So I started letting her free range on assorted trees I bought a couple hours a day. After I started this she seemed unhappy when I would put her up. So I began setting up my free range. I'm lucky to have a sunroom that I can lock, but any room would do, mine just so happens to face the south and gets real sun from 10a.m.to 5p.m which I open her windows so she can bask through the screened storm window.free ranging was the best desicion I ever made other than getting a chameleon. She is much more happy now and in turn more freindly. If it is possible you should free range. Just try your best to make his space more appealing to him than anywhere else in the room. Keep a close eye on him and good luck. You can do this! Good vibes light and love brother.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[ponders]

I agree that the temps were too high and he was probably trying to find a cooler location. I think his rostrals were rubbed down, probably on screen. When I received my giant fischers, his were rubbed like that .I covered the sides with a green shower curtain and he stopped. I think less mistings with longer intervals would be better. Also, when I got mine, I covered most of his cage and left him alone for a week, except to put free range food in the cage. It took a long time to get him to hand feed. He is probably just be stressed out and overheated. I found my giant fischers, which is larger than the one you have, used all of his cage and I had him in a 48x24x24.

 

[Carlton]

Yeah, the poor little guy has some broken rostral processes. That is never any good, but it happens when K. multituberculata's are imported.

The size cage you have for him is plenty. The one thing I will tell you is that your temps are way higher than I ever run on my multi's. He might be fretting from that...in fact, he more than likely is fretting from that. They are from Tanzania and Kenya in the montane areas. This being said, I like to keep my guy in the 68 - 76 degree range. I offer a basking spot with a 25w bulb. That is it. They will usually bask in the morning and that is the extent of their use of it. They will sometimes come back to it when I shower them heavily. But that's neither her no there. In their natural habitat, temps rarely get to 85 degrees.

For instance, it was 67 degrees outside today and drizzly. I let mine sit outside all day. They prefer those ranges of temps much better. So I would recommend that being your first move. Also, what is your misting schedule? They love water, water and more water. I have found that the more water I give them, the better off they are. Now, I am not saying keep the cage constantly saturated like an enclosure for a cloud forest dweller, but moist with dry off periods.

Multi's can be skittish. Out of all my chameleons, they are the ones I make great efforts not to hold. They will try to flee and jump straight off of anything. I have found this behavior to be much more prominent in my males than females.

So, overall advice would include: drop temps both ambient and basking. Make sure you have a ten degree nightly drop in temps.(this is a must IMO). Up the water intake and let him be for a couple of weeks.

I agree. My wc fischeri were very very active and reactive. He's brand new to your situation so he has no sense of his territory yet and is disoriented. I would be concerned that if you give him free range "sessions" it will just frustrate him further when he's put back in his cage again. I think I would leave him in his setup, give him privacy, cool it down, mist it, keep your daily cage chores to a minimum, and let him settle into his new space. If he does mellow out later, maybe take him out to a free range area in the house and see how he reacts. He might bolt, drop to the ground, and disappear.

 

[Shivar102]

His temps have been adjusted and I came home to seeing him happily basking, which was awesome for me to see. I fed him, then he went back to being a grumpy dooshebag and ran off. He has misting every hour to keep up the humidity, which he hates but he'll get over it. I always spray the plants and cage a couple times a day.

Unfortunately I live in Erie New York and the temperatures are consistently less than pleasant, or else I'd make the whole breezeway his home.

I'm hoping the fact one of his rostrals being rubbed away isn't a huge issue.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

<Sticks head out of cave, wondering what all the noise is about>

Your habitat is off and the animal is telling you that.
At least you picked up on it and came here unlike some dweebs who would have left it to die thinking the animal will adapt.


For starters the animal is going low to get away from the high temps. It turns back to happy colors when it's not cooking.

That animal likes temps in the 60-70's. For a basking spot put the heat lamp on a timer and have it turn on for only an hour in the morning. If he wants to bask he'll use it, most likely he won't.

Your cage size is fine, your cover looks fine, I would add a second UVB bulb to brighten it all up however. Two 5.0 bulbs won't hurt with that much height. That or look into some of the LED bulbs sold by Todd over at lightyourreptiles, you can't go wrong with the guy. He's a guru on lighting needs and what works in the market.

I would encourage fewer mistings. Give him a 5 minute one in the late morning and another in the middle of the afternoon. On hot days a few 1 minutes ones later in the day/evening would help too.

If you can free range him a bit, always a good thing. Not the hardest species to care for but not a beginner one either.

 

[Shivar102]

I didn't realize the temps were to be that low. It's a little irritating that the few caresheets I've found of Fischer's gave the impression that it was to be higher.

"These chameleons thrive best when provided a wide range of temperatures to select the one they need best. A high temperature of 90 degrees or more at the top of the cage is ideal, as long as the bottom of the cage is below 80 degrees. A good thermometer is vital to determining cage temperature, and no chameleon cage should be without at least one!"

I'll be sure to get another UVB bulb as well. Thank you. Great advice, Thug seems to be in a better mood today.