New Dwarf Fischer's chameleon

[Mrice]

Hello all,

I just joined this forum site today. I have a male dwarf Fischer's Cham, not sure how old he is. I assume he's an adult as he looks to be the same size as pictures I've referenced. I was looking for a specific care sheet for dwarf Fischer's. I have had a hard time seeing that they aren't one of the more popular species. Any advice/leads would be much appreciated!!

 

[Mike Fisher]

There are so many species of fischerii that they can be misidentified by many sellers. Can you post some clear photos?

 

[Mrice]

Rice, chameleon

This is him.

 

[Chris Anderson]

It looks like you got a male Uluguru Two-horned Chameleon (Kinyongia uluguruensis). This is an extremely rare species, but fortunately, Mike is working with these and should be able to help you out.

Chris

 

[Mrice]

Uluguru.

Well, that is both exciting and intimidating. I've been keeping his environment moderately warm 78-80 degrees and 65-80% humidity (humidity spikes after mister goes off).

 

[Mike Fisher]

It looks like you got a male Uluguru Two-horned Chameleon (Kinyongia uluguruensis).

Yup, that is why I asked for a pic. It seems these are getting collected lately. I keep mine in the high 60's low 70's F ambient, with a basking spot ~ 80F. Low to mid 60's at night. Pretty much the same as my other Kinyongia but I have noticed that they do bask more so I'm believing that I may be keeping them a hair on the cool side.

Congrats on obtaining one of them, if he does well for you, consider getting a female for breeding and we'll share notes.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Another thing worth mentioning, I had a hard time acclimating males. They are a shy emotional species. They don't like to be watched, handled, or photos taken. I recommend a very heavily planted enclosure and do not handle him unless absolutely necessary. By far the the most difficult species I've ever had to acclimate. Hoping if I get hatchlings that they are better in this regard.

 

[Chase]

Where did you buy from that had them identified as dwarf fischers?

Chase

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This is an interesting development, this years imports of Kinyongia uluguruensis. They are listed as only having a 2014 CITES quota of 10 F1 specimens. However it is interesting though as it appears Tanzania WC chameleon collectors seem to be expanding their collecting range to the Uluguru Mountains a bit more. As normally only the seldom seen Kinyongia oxyrhina, Trioceros deremensis (Usambara Mountain as well), and Trioceros werneri are seen from that region. This year is proving the myth that "The USA does not ever get any of the rare chameleons in" is not an accurate statement.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[CarlC]

It also goes to show you that collectors have to travel to more obscure area's for collection and are easily able to cheat the system that is in place to protect these species.

Carl

 

[Mrice]

Another thing worth mentioning, I had a hard time acclimating males. They are a shy emotional species. They don't like to be watched, handled, or photos taken. I recommend a very heavily planted enclosure and do not handle him unless absolutely necessary. By far the the most difficult species I've ever had to acclimate. Hoping if I get hatchlings that they are better in this regard.

He seems to be doing alright. I've had him for a little over a month now. I'm glad to hear we were on the same page for temps. I live in Nebraska so I really don't need much of a heat source as the temps naturally fall within that area. He also seems to bask quite a bit but is also pretty active. I've noticed he doesn't hide all that much and will eat crickets from a pair of tweezers on occasion and take water from a syringe (I used a repti boost vitamin on occasion when first purchasing).

Chase: I initially bought him from the local PetCo. They had only labeled him as a Fischer's Chameleon. There were two males at the time, kept in the same enclosure. The other male was purchased shortly after mine and did not survive.

I'll try and get a few more pics of him when his light comes back on in about an hour along with the terrarium. I would like to make sure I'm on the right track. Additionally, I've noticed he will eat crickets and flies, but refuses any sort of worm, I have not attempted silk worms yet.

 

[Chase]

What a lucky find at a PetCo!

I'm now wishing I would have taken some pictures of these Fischers I saw at Daytona. They were like nothing I've ever seen before.

Chase

 

[Mrice]

I feel bad for the future chameleons they get at the local PetCo though. The "expert" there obviously didn't know as much as he thought. He had two adult males in one enclosure and the temps/humidity was not appropriate for any species of chameleon. Here are a few additional pics:

 

[Mike Fisher]

One of the worlds scarcest chameleons available for purchase at Petco. Yes, folks, the system is broken. Hopefully the collectors left some on the mountain.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Here are a few additional pics:

Can you post bigger pics of your setup? The enclosure looks a bit dark.

 

[Mrice]

Rango

I am at work right now but I will definitely post some more photos when I get home. So how scarce of a chameleon are we talking here? I have been doing some thinking. I am not one to let pride get in the way of logic. I live 20 minutes away from the #1 zoo in the nation (Henry Doorly). Is he scarce enough that I should be contacting them to take him so he can be studied and used for breeding? Not wanting to overreact, I just want to do the right thing for Rango.

 

[Chris Anderson]

This is an interesting development, this years imports of Kinyongia uluguruensis. They are listed as only having a 2014 CITES quota of 10 F1 specimens. However it is interesting though as it appears Tanzania WC chameleon collectors seem to be expanding their collecting range to the Uluguru Mountains a bit more. As normally only the seldom seen Kinyongia oxyrhina, Trioceros deremensis (Usambara Mountain as well), and Trioceros werneri are seen from that region. This year is proving the myth that "The USA does not ever get any of the rare chameleons in" is not an accurate statement.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Just to play devil's advocate, given the wide range of K. oxyrhina, T. deremensis and T. werneri, I don't think that we can really definitively say that these were previously being collected in the Uluguru Mountains at all. All three are also found in the Udzungwa and Nguru Mountains, and there are other mountain ranges that each of these species are found in too (K. oxyrhina: Rubeho Mountains; T. deremensis: Usambara Mountains; T. werneri: Rubeho and Ukaguru Mountains), so its likely that they were collected from different locations independently of each other. That said, given the restricted range of K. uluguruensis, obviously the collectors are starting to collect there.

It also goes to show you that collectors have to travel to more obscure area's for collection and are easily able to cheat the system that is in place to protect these species.

Carl

Agreed. Based on the recommendations from CITES following the Review of Significant Trade, however, I don't think we will see these other species being exported as K. fischeri for much longer. In addition to a number of specific requirements relating to providing information on the distribution and management of K. fischeri, the Tanzanian Management Authority is being required to "Provide details of how Kinyongia spp. in trade are distinguished, taking into account the taxonomic changes adopted at CoP15" (http://www.cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/com/ac/27/wg/E-AC27-WG-01.pdf). Thus, to satisfy these recommendations, they will have to document that they know and understand the updated taxonomy as accepted by CITES, know how to differentiate the species, and are aware that these other taxa do not overlap with K. fischeri. So, I suspect we will start seeing a lot of changes to the quotas for this group, and how these shipments are labeled and permitted.

Chirs

 

[Chris Anderson]

I am at work right now but I will definitely post some more photos when I get home. So how scarce of a chameleon are we talking here? I have been doing some thinking. I am not one to let pride get in the way of logic. I live 20 minutes away from the #1 zoo in the nation (Henry Doorly). Is he scarce enough that I should be contacting them to take him so he can be studied and used for breeding? Not wanting to overreact, I just want to do the right thing for Rango.

Just because they are a good zoo overall does not mean they know anything about keeping chameleons (few do), let alone breeding any other than veileds or panthers. I also would be extremely surprised if they had access to any additional K. uluguruensis to even begin to establish any type of breeding group. As a result, I really don't think giving him to any zoo would be particularly beneficial to this individual or the species in general.

Mike has the only other identified specimens of this species that have been kept in captivity (I'm sure others are floating around like yours, but they are unlikely to have been identified for what they are). Otherwise, the species is only known from a handful of specimens in museums (very little is known about the species).

Chris

 

[Mrice]

Rango

That is a good point. The zoo may not be able to provide any better care. I will take some better photos of the enclosure and chameleon when I get home. I appreciate the help in the matter.

 

[Mrice]

Additional Pics

here are some closer pictures of the chameleon and enclosure.