New graceful not eating/drinking

P

Pacman

New Member
I know this has been gone over a million times but i just wanted to get opinions on my particular case. I picked up my first male graceful chameleon Xerxes last monday from a reputable pet store here in town. I got his cage set up for him nice and comfy and introduced him to his new home. he seemed fine the first night other than being nervous about his new surroundings and i even witnessed him eat two crickets. since then he has been on the decline eating only one cricket a day, seeming tired, scratching his cage and never drinking water from what my close eye on him has seen. i know that chameleons get very stressed in their new homes and need time to get used to the surroundings but im afraid there might be something else wrong with him. he has a brown patch on the tip of his mouth and today while he had his mouth open for a second i noticed a slight yellowness around his gums. could this perhaps be mouth rot? he also has a small patch of white flaky scales on him but im assuming this is just from his last shedding. Like i said this is my first chameleon so im still learning. take it easy on me guys :)


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Juvenile male graceful chameleon. owned for almost a week.
Handling - I took him outside today for about 15-20 minutes to soak up some natural light and while he was out i snapped my pics. this was the first time ive handled him other than cage maintenance. he seemed to spruce right up once he got comfortable being outside.
Feeding - Feeder crickets gut loaded with Zilla gut load cricket and insect food. On average i have seem him eat one cricket per day.
Supplements - Flukers calcium/phosphorus/D3
Watering - I have a constant water flow running throughout the day. I mist the cage regularly throughout the day to keep humidity up until my fogger arrives in the mail. i also have a water dish (useless, i know) that i change daily in hopes of him drinking from it or at least raising humidity.
Fecal Description - Urate has been ranging from white to yellowish orange due to him not drinking. dark fecal matter. has not been tested for parasites.
History - I dont know any previous history on him.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Glass enclosure with screen top. 18x18x24. yes i know its glass and on the smaller side but i will upgrade to a larger screen cage when he starts growing. this is all i have for now.
Lighting - Zoo med dual bulb lamp. Zilla 100w day white light (incandescent). Zilla 100w night black heat (incandescent). 12 hours day, 12 hours night.
Temperature - 80-85 during the day and 70 at night. measured on a needle temp guage mounted slightly higher than half way down the cage.
Humidity - 65-70%. gracefuls need 85-100% so that is low. I mist regularly during the day to try and keep levels up. im hoping with a fogger it will help me out with this.
Plants - two vines intertwined, two fake plants, one real, a little moss. cant remember the name of the real plant but i verified that it is not harmful.
Placement - The cage is located in my basement bedroom. little to no traffic other than me. the top is about 4 - 4 1/2' from the floor
Location - Pocatello, Idaho

Current Problem - eating very little. not drinking. possible mouth rot??


sorry for the crappy ipod pics.
my setup...

IMG_0123.jpg


brown patch on mouth.

IMG_0121.jpg


flaky white scales.

IMG_0119.jpg


If any more pictures are needed just let me know. anything you guys can help out with would be much appreciated!
 
Do you have a uvb light? You do not need a light at night. None at all. The incadescent only provides uva. 100 watt is probably too hot for glass.Sure your temps are right? you need way more branches, vines and plants for him to hide. Has your cham been climbing on top of the screen? That looks like a possible burn. i don't think it is mouth rot. Their mouths can be yellow inside. That is normal.You need to gutload your crickets with fresh fruits and veggies. You need a calcium without d3 to use daily. use the d3 twice montly and get a multivitamin and do the same. The white scales are shed. Also remove the mulch on the bottom.
 
carol5208 said:
Do you have a uvb light? You do not need a light at night. None at all. The incadescent only provides uva. 100 watt is probably too hot for glass.Sure your temps are right? you need way more branches, vines and plants for him to hide. Has your cham been climbing on top of the screen? That looks like a possible burn. i don't think it is mouth rot. Their mouths can be yellow inside. That is normal.You need to gutload your crickets with fresh fruits and veggies. You need a calcium without d3 to use daily. use the d3 twice montly and get a multivitamin and do the same. The white scales are shed. Also remove the mulch on the bottom.
Click to expand...

i'll have to double check the temp with another thermometer to be positive but im pretty sure its accurate. he hasnt been getting on the screen at all but i'll grab a lamp stand just to be safe and see if he has any change in mood. are you positive on the no light at night? the temp around here can get pretty cold at night especially being in the basement. what would you suggest to use other than the substrate i have?
 
yes no light at night. It disrupts their sleep cycle. What kind of temps are you talking about at night? Below 55 or so? If you need heat get a little ceramic heater bulb that you can screw into the dome to warm the cage. Nothing in the bottom of the cage is best. Mulch can be injested accidentally(shooting at prey) or intentionally and it could kill your chameleon. So, do you have a uvb bulb? You have to have uvb or your chameleon will die. They need both uva and uvb. I am not 100% sure but from that one pic you might have a flapneck chameleon and not a graceful. Can you post some more clearer pics of the mouth. Mouthrot usually seems to start on the side of the mouth instead of the front from what I have seen.
 
I use paper towels on bottom easier cleanup good luck man and welcome this is a wealth of knowledge
 
Please consider a trip to a vet for a fecal as soon as you are able. He is probably wild-caught at almost certainly has parasites. My chameleon had a full check-up, fecal test and treatment for hookworms and it came to $175. Well worth it. The substrate at the bottom looks lovely but isn't ideal, and can help the parasites to continually reinfect your chameleon.

Consider him being in intensive care for a while, he looks pretty dehydrated, is retaining some shed skin and has that black mark. It may well be a rub or a burn from before you got him. A good tip for hydration is showering him, just put a branch in your shower, put the water to about room temp and aim st the wall so only the misty spray goes on him. About 20 mins once or twice a day will helo him drink. You could also try dripping water in leaves near his face, this was the only way I got mine to drink!
 
carol5208 said:
yes no light at night. It disrupts their sleep cycle. What kind of temps are you talking about at night? Below 55 or so? If you need heat get a little ceramic heater bulb that you can screw into the dome to warm the cage. Nothing in the bottom of the cage is best. Mulch can be injested accidentally(shooting at prey) or intentionally and it could kill your chameleon. So, do you have a uvb bulb? You have to have uvb or your chameleon will die. They need both uva and uvb. I am not 100% sure but from that one pic you might have a flapneck chameleon and not a graceful. Can you post some more clearer pics of the mouth. Mouthrot usually seems to start on the side of the mouth instead of the front from what I have seen.
Click to expand...

I would say around 55 or so a night but thats just for mid/late spring, summers should be in the 70's. Both bulbs are incandescent so im assuming no i dont have a uvb. im heading to the store to grab one as soon as i send this reply. unfortunately this laptop im on doesnt have a slot for a SD card so i cant use my camera to show you better pics. all the ones i try to take on my ipod turn out fuzzy just like that one. it kind of looks like a scab if that helps any. and yes im sure its a graceful :)


Trillian said:
Consider him being in intensive care for a while, he looks pretty dehydrated, is retaining some shed skin and has that black mark. It may well be a rub or a burn from before you got him. A good tip for hydration is showering him, just put a branch in your shower, put the water to about room temp and aim st the wall so only the misty spray goes on him. About 20 mins once or twice a day will helo him drink. You could also try dripping water in leaves near his face, this was the only way I got mine to drink!
Click to expand...

i actually just pulled him out of the shower before i checked this. ive tried dripping water right in front of him and on his mouth but nothing. if he doesnt start drinking on his own i dont know what else to do but use a syringe and make him drink :confused:
 
Try setting the dripper so the water splatters on a few leaves near a perch, you'd be surprised how effective a tiny change like that can make! I tried all sorts with mine, short of syringing it right in her mouth.
 
ok on the graceful thing, but the back of his head sure looks like a flapneck...but again maybe we can get Trace(hello out there) who really knows how to ID chameleons. How do you know for sure?? Is it a male or female? Those temps should be fine and you will not need any light at night. get a tube light uvb. They are best and cover more area in your cage. Again, without it, your chameleon will die a slow death. Most of use Reptisun or Reptiglo 5.0's with success. if it is a scab then it could be a rub or a burn which is better than mouth rot!
 
OK. UVB bulb is up and running and both are now farther away from the basking area. the substrate will be going away and probably replaced with the fake terrain stuff. also a vet visit will happen as soon as possible. thank you guys so much for your input!
 
wow that was quick!!! Do you know if it is afemale or male? Again, I might have to argue with you that it is a graceful and not a flapneck. If you got it from a pet store they don't know half the time what they are selling. and they are constantly wrong about the sex.
 
carol5208 said:
ok on the graceful thing, but the back of his head sure looks like a flapneck...but again maybe we can get Trace(hello out there) who really knows how to ID chameleons. How do you know for sure?? Is it a male or female? Those temps should be fine and you will not need any light at night. get a tube light uvb. They are best and cover more area in your cage. Again, without it, your chameleon will die a slow death. Most of use Reptisun or Reptiglo 5.0's with success. if it is a scab then it could be a rub or a burn which is better than mouth rot!
Click to expand...

graceful - http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Lizard958.jpg

flap neck - http://www.taos-telecommunity.org/e.../EPOW-030825_files/flapnecked_chameleon_1.jpg

they do look very similar dont they? im 99% sure mine is a graceful though. as for the bulb i did go with a reptisun 5.0 but not the tube style.
 
carol5208 said:
wow that was quick!!! Do you know if it is afemale or male? Again, I might have to argue with you that it is a graceful and not a flapneck. If you got it from a pet store they don't know half the time what they are selling. and they are constantly wrong about the sex.
Click to expand...

I would be weary of pet store IDs as well... Not all pet stores are bad but many dont know what the heck they are doin...

Nuff said, onward and upward!


Carry on...
 
ok I guess you win then!!! Yeah they sure do. It is ok if you got the compact 5.0, just as long as you have one. What about the sex? I am not sure if that species has the spurs on the back of their back feet like the veilds. If you have a female they can lay eggs without mating...did you know that!? that is a whole nother story now!!
 
carol5208 said:
ok I guess you win then!!! Yeah they sure do. It is ok if you got the compact 5.0, just as long as you have one. What about the sex? I am not sure if that species has the spurs on the back of their back feet like the veilds. If you have a female they can lay eggs without mating...did you know that!? that is a whole nother story now!!
Click to expand...

K, I ain't getting into this, but in an effort to be helpful, I found these:

http://www.arkive.org/flap-necked-chameleon/chamaeleo-dilepis/

http://www.arkive.org/graceful-chameleon/chamaeleo-gracilis/
 
haha yes i did know that about the eggs. lets just pray i am right about being a male because im not ready to deal with that.
 
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