New owner questions and worries

[AWO128]

Hi there

Myself and my girlfriend have just bought ourselves a male panther chameleon, picked him up on Sunday. We didn't intend to buy one – I went to look at fish! But someone fell in love, strange as she’d always claimed to not like/want pets.

I’m the sort of person that need to be super prepared for everything so I've been scrambling to catch up knowledge wise – only reason I was agreeable is I've looked at keeping beardies in the past and in doing so had read a little about chameleons….but not enough for my liking.

So I've got a couple of questions and like some opinions…..might get quite long.

Calcium supplement.
The store supplied me with Nutrobal (calcium balancer & multivitamin) and have said that we only need to dust 2/3 times a week. What I read is quite contrary to that advise, i.e. calcium everyday, D3 couple time a month etc. Is this Nutrobal ok? Should I use this each day or as directed by the shop staff…..or should I get a different product?

Misting
He really doesn't seem to like it, RH is in the high 70’s…almost 80. Should I persist with misting him or only when/if the humidity drops? Should I mist him directly or just the enclosure?

Eyes
This morning when waking up I saw him doing this funky eye manoeuvre. He seemed to pull his eye in and roll it, you could see a sort of reddish internal lenses?? Wipe across his eye….only did it a couple of times before getting up and about.
I assume this normal morning behaviour?
Also when I first turned the lights on in the morning his belly/lower half was quite red and coloured as he woke up he went back to his usual green…normal?

ID
Can you Id the type of Panther he is from his colours? The shop had no further details….I just curious.

Age, size
Looking at the attached pictures what you judge him to be. Store said he was about two years old, if that’s right is he not quite small? Do you think they’re wrong and he’s younger?

Condition
Again judging from the pictures how would you rate his condition? Any warning signs I should be aware of?
To me! his eyes look good, he’s mobile and quite active. He’s feeding well.... straight away on the first night home and since. Takes from our hands and hunts loose ones down – not seen him drink though.
Pooped on the girlfriend – I missed that moment She reports a white one and a dark one….which sounds good to me. I asked if there was any yellow/orange in the white one, she said no.

He seems unusually friendly from what Ive read (part of why my girlfriend fell for him) Most of the time you just have to offer your hand and he slowly makes his way out to sit on your head.

We actually bought the enclosure he was living in the store, lights rocks everything, as it all looked quite good and a good size. Hoping that it’d minimise any stress in the move.
It’s a Exo Terra 90x90x45, the store took it apart in front of him cleaned and packed everything up.

Now then…..
The thing I’m not sure about.... it has a waterfall, which also forms his drinking water. Pretty much everything I read advises against having a waterfall. But this is a little different to what most people are talking about, but still…...
The store agreed with the general advise not to have them when I asked about it, but they insisted that because this such a large volume of moving water, as long as we check every morning for and remove and waste that its fine to change it just once a week (remove anything as soon as you see it, check minimum once a day was the advise).
Looking to canvas some opinion on this, I’ve not seen another setup like this and there is usually a reason for that. I also worried about him falling in, but from what I’ve read they can swim and he has plenty of ways out ….still a worry though. The water is heated….

He'd been in this setup for over 6 months (according to the store)

These pictures were taken as soon as I'd gotten things setup, they aren't best... phone camera. I will be taking some decent pictures soon

Thanks for any comments and advise, its all very much appreciated, he's a cool little guy and I want to do right by him.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on that handsome little man! I'm attaching my blog for you below for new keepers. Hopefully it will answer some of your questions.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

More great info here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

 

[Fogerty]

Screened Cage!

I am on my second cham, first a Jacksons, now a Veiled , also consider myself a Newbie, but here goes, GET HIM OUT of the glass enclosure, they become "snowblind" from all of the reflected light and develop a kind of conjuntivitis which hurts their eyes ,not to worry they recover from that with no lasting effects,they also stress from reflections, he MUST BE in a screened in cage, taller/larger the better , remove standing water, (bacteria breeding ground) leading to infections, buy or make a dripper that drips a drop every 30 seconds to a minute where he can reach the drop like landing on a leaf. Mist twice a day regardless. Live plant helps ,it gives the drip somewhere to go and keeps a constant humidity. He looks to be about the age you stated and by the way he is beautiful, enjoy him.

 

[symphonica]

He appears to be an ambilobe panther, and seems less than a year old, but not positive.

First, if you're a complete beginner, I'd recommend staying away from a glass enclosure. Go with a ReptiBreeze or other form of screened cage. They need the airflow, and glass makes it easy for bacteria to grow, which can make them very ill, because of the stagnant air and moisture not drying.

And no need for a rock. And the gravel in there, get it out of there ASAP. They could accidentally ingest it, which can cause blockages. They live up in trees in the wild. When would they come into contact with rocks?

There aren't enough vines for him in that cage. Make sure you give him plenty of vines and branches for him to climb on, to get from the top of the cage to the bottom, right to left - pretty much, they should be able to get to any spot in the cage using the vines.

You should let the cage dry completely in between mistings. Again, easier in a screened cage, rather than a glass tank. And there should never be a pool of water. If that's water at the bottom of the cage, get rid of it. They can drown. Again, they live up in trees. Design his enclosure to make it seem like he's in the top of a tree.

A waterfall serves absolutely no purpose - get rid of it. They won't recognize it as a drinking source. Get a dripper instead, and have the drips land on leaves so that he can lap the water off of the leaves.

I don't combine my Calcium and Vites. Some vites can be harmful if given too often, but they need Ca every day. Therefore, I do Ca daily, Vites twice a week, and D3 twice a month. Remember, just because something is good doesn't mean that the more you give, the better.

Make sure you're varying his feeding. Crickets should be the staple. You should always gutload them with greens. Gutloading just means feeding the crickets greens, because the cham is going to get his nutrients directly through the crickets. You could vary his diet using dubia roaches, super worms, mealworms, etc., but these shouldn't be the staple. On the other hand, if you're always feeding him the same thing, he will get bored and refuse to eat.

I'm assuming that you're using a UVB bulb, preferably a tube bulb, not a coil. I would recommend a 5.0. Also, glass reflects all of UVB, so if there's a piece of glass between the cham and bulb, he's not getting any of it. UVB is one of the most important things for your cham. They should be getting 12 hours of it. Not enough UVB and they could end up with Metaboilc Bone Disease (MBD), which is a progressive, degenerative disease, like MS in humans. It will kill them.

And you should have a basking spot for him. In terms of basking, you could use a regular incandescent house bulb. Just make sure the basking spot doesn't get too hot. The temp of the hottest part should be around 88F (no higher than 90F). The rest should be around 75-80F. At night, everything should be turned off, and the temp should drop down to about 60-65F. If it's colder in the room, you could use a ceramic heat lamp, but it should be completely dark for them during bedtime.

You want your chameleon to have the option of getting close to the heat when he wants to bask, but also to get away from it when he doesn't want it. You should therefore have varying gradients available.

Chameleons do require annual vet exams. X-rays will look for any signs of MBD. Bloodwork will check for organ function. Fecal exam will check for any parasites.

I don't really understand what you're saying about his eyes. A photo or video clip would help.

 

[symphonica]

Also, enclosure looks too small for him. I would recommend at least 24" x 24" (~60cm) x 48" (~122cm) tall, with the bigger the better. Are you sure it's really 90cm x 90cm x 45cm? It doesn't look it. And even if the tank itself is that size, that unnecessary background is taking away about half that space.

 

[Zerah Morris]

death

That enclosure will kill that ambilobe, if the spotlight and lack of privacy don't first. Do not panic. Run back to the pet store you found him. Purchase the largest mesh zip front cage you can find. Put all bark in garbage disposal. Loose the spot light put just a plain 25w clear in instead.. Run to Lowes buy large fica. Wash, repeat, wash, repeat, ad nausea. Place cage with fica and a few branches in the darkest least entered corner of you home. put lights on time. Cham in. Leave the hell alone. no peeking, no picking up nothing. 2-3 times a day drench him with luke warm water. You should be concerned for your carpet drench. Every three day a few gut loaded and dusted crickets like read 5 here, until he's attacking them instantly. He is a hybrid ambilobe male best I can tell. He is tough as nails if you do the above. If not he will emaciate and die.

Zerah J Morris

 

[xraygirl]

Dubia, silkworms, hornworms and crickets are all excellent staple feeders. Varying them is key to prevent your handsome boy from getting bored of his feeders.

Also varying your gut loads is key too. Sandra's blog has awesome tips on gut loading, dry and wet, and recipes to make your own. Mealworms and super worms should be fed in moderation due to possible impaction... wax worms and butter worms should be fed in moderation due to their fattiness, think of those like a Krispy Kreme donut...

 

[camimom]

That enclosure will kill that ambilobe, if the spotlight and lack of privacy don't first. Do not panic. Run back to the pet store you found him. Purchase the largest mesh zip front cage you can find. Put all bark in garbage disposal. Loose the spot light put just a plain 25w clear in instead.. Run to Lowes buy large fica. Wash, repeat, wash, repeat, ad nausea. Place cage with fica and a few branches in the darkest least entered corner of you home. put lights on time. Cham in. Leave the hell alone. no peeking, no picking up nothing. 2-3 times a day drench him with luke warm water. You should be concerned for your carpet drench. Every three day a few gut loaded and dusted crickets like read 5 here, until he's attacking them instantly. He is a hybrid ambilobe male best I can tell. He is tough as nails if you do the above. If not he will emaciate and die.

Zerah J Morris

Seriously?? you are going to scare him away.
First off- you cant tell thats a cross panther, He looks like a full ambilobe. And even if he is a cross, its not a huge deal.

Second- fica is not a plant. A ficus is. please make sure you know what youare typing.

And stop scaring people, he will not emaciate and die. thats super harsh.

To the OP- we recommend screen enclosures because panthers like a lot of air flow.

You can get rid of the red light. You need two bulbs- a UVB and a regular house bulb for basking.

No lights at night.

Get rid of the bark, as it is possible they will ingest it.

also, he will not emaciate and die.

What you want do to is feed him every day, around 5-10 bugs, and gauge what his eating habits are like.

As he is close to adult age, if not over a year old, he may not every day, and thats ok.

We suggest reading blogs by sandrachameleon on how to gutload your bugs.

I personally recommend feeding roaches as they breed faster, dont smell like crickets do, dont jump, and cant climb glass or plastic.

I can usually feed an adult male cham 3-5 roaches every other day, instead of 10+ crickets and keep my chams well fed.

Read the blog jannb posted, and you will be fine.

Contrarey to popular belief and what the above poster said, chams are not hard to care for, just specialized.

and as you have an almost full grown one, its even easier.

 

[symphonica]

It's all about the way in which you present things - word choice greatly reflects your level of intelligence and capability to coexist peacefully with others within society.


Camimom's reply pretty much summed up what I wrote, in a more easy to read, bulleted list.

 

[Zerah Morris]

No argent here. Totally agree. Word choice was intentional. Guy walks in to buy a gold fish, with no research buys everything Petco girl would sell. Now he's in a mess. Word choice was meant to say with out proper enclosure, feeding, light, most important water and privacy they can die in days. I've had whole shipments of carpets dead before they wake up day one. Are the hardy yes. But if you don't move and undo what you've done they will die.

And I've been here a minute, just been a minute since I was here.

I have always been blunt. More of these animals die in a year than survive in 10 finding an animal over 3-5 years is rare

 

[Psychedelic Chams]

No argent here. Totally agree. Word choice was intentional. Guy walks in to buy a gold fish, with no research buys everything Petco girl would sell. Now he's in a mess. Word choice was meant to say with out proper enclosure, feeding, light, most important water and privacy they can die in days. I've had whole shipments of carpets dead before they wake up day one. Are the hardy yes. But if you don't move and undo what you've done they will die.

And I've been here a minute, just been a minute since I was here.

I have always been blunt. More of these animals die in a year than survive in 10 finding an animal over 3-5 years is rare

I believe tons of people have 3-5 year old panthers on here and if you care about an animal you should give him the correct environment before purchasing is all your saying we understand no reason to get defensive if the guy fixes his errors and takes our advice to heart his ambilobe will live for a long time

 

[camimom]

Many forum members have chams that are 5+ years old.

I currently have a male veiled that is 3 years old and going strong.

We try to play nice here.

And while yes the OP made an impulsive buy, hes clearly doing the work now to figure out how to care for the cham properly.

 

[Zerah Morris]

Take panthers and veiled out. What ya got? Dead bodies.

I'm sure Mike are Chris can give insight as to the number of species imported annually.

 

[xraygirl]

Take panthers and veiled out. What ya got? Dead bodies.

I'm sure Mike are Chris can give insight as to the number of species imported annually.

Eat a Snickers.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Zerah - I'm no sure what your goal here is. There are many species very successfully kept by keepers here on this forums. Carpets, K. multi, Jackson's, even parsons to name a few. Your attitude is extremely hostile and therefore unwelcome. This forum is to share information to further our knowledge about species kept in captivity. This is the only way to improve how chameleons, of any species, do in captivity and decrease wild caught imports. If you are not wanting to contribute to that then I do not think you've found the right forum. Just because people don't do things the same as you does not mean you can chastise them. And cursing and attacking others will not be tolerated. Please see the forum rules for explanations on infractions issued for continued inappropriate behavior.

 

[Zerah Morris]

I like snickers. I love chameleons. Like are hate it they are facts. But this is gone on long enough. Hey all I'm back. Got cool stuff. New research. A few successful off species breeding a lot of non successful. And lots of dead bodies at my feet. So I'll share what I think I know and be gone again.

 

[Zerah Morris]

Guess I'm being asked to leave. Happy go killing. Chris hit me up. I'll my cell

 

[Juliaf3]

Eat a Snickers.

Lol that was funny. As for the origin thread starter, I impulse bought myself. I was able to research here and correct my horrible living condition for my Jackson. Initial start up is speedy, but worth it. Your guy will be just fine. Just try and follow what has been said to you on here. Everyone is right in there own way. They all just said it differently. Sad fact is, tons of people impulse by these beautiful creature. Just try to quickly fix all the bad, because losing such a beautiful panther would be tragic. Best of luck! AND welcome to the forums!

 

[Zerah Morris]

And to moderator. Show me pics of any of the species you listed breeding annually and healthy at 5 in captivity. Contact or forum detail preferable.

 

[Zerah Morris]

Successful

One mans successful is another mans caged death