new THE BLACK VEILED
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JAdrig
Member
people are playing god when they cut the grass...and reproduce...
Hey if it is legal to fly to SC to marry your first cousin, it should be perfectly fine for you to do it with your chameleons...
It is genetically sound for humans to reproduce with their first cousin, as long as it isnt repeated over and over again.
Hey if it is legal to fly to SC to marry your first cousin, it should be perfectly fine for you to do it with your chameleons...
It is genetically sound for humans to reproduce with their first cousin, as long as it isnt repeated over and over again.
RPCV
Avid Member
Just sets itself up. Too easy....thought I'd reply with something witty...but am a bit disturbed and cannot think of anything. Someone please pick this up and run with it.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Would u want to buy some breeders inbred offspring? I wouldn't! vet bills are bad enuff without genetic defs added to the mix.
JAdrig
Member
I guess no one in this forum posts in the leopard gecko forum...
The difference between natural selection, that occurs in the wild, and selective breeding, which occurs in captivity, is that with selective breeding the goal is achieved thousands of years sooner.
EVERY domestic dog was bred with its siblings/parents repeatedly over time.
Each breed usually has its medical conditions...comes with the territory.
Compare your dog to a wolf...any differences are a result of inbreeding. The first domestic dogs were bred from the runts of the wolf pack.
It can be harmful, especially if there are genetic diseases in their genotype.
The difference between natural selection, that occurs in the wild, and selective breeding, which occurs in captivity, is that with selective breeding the goal is achieved thousands of years sooner.
EVERY domestic dog was bred with its siblings/parents repeatedly over time.
Each breed usually has its medical conditions...comes with the territory.
Compare your dog to a wolf...any differences are a result of inbreeding. The first domestic dogs were bred from the runts of the wolf pack.
It can be harmful, especially if there are genetic diseases in their genotype.
ijmccollum
New Member
Interesting thought. The way it is showing now (green) it just looks stressed to me.
JAdrig
Member
It depends on what I was buying...some people pay a lot more just for that inbred animal...
Albino boas have many more complications when producing albino offspring as compared to normal phase boas, but is that cruel? Its obviously not an inferior animal if it is being raised in captivity.
There have not really been that many phenotypic variations in chameleons, other than different locales. Not many recessive traits popping up, thats why it is causing such a stir.
Albino boas have many more complications when producing albino offspring as compared to normal phase boas, but is that cruel? Its obviously not an inferior animal if it is being raised in captivity.
There have not really been that many phenotypic variations in chameleons, other than different locales. Not many recessive traits popping up, thats why it is causing such a stir.
rnara002
New Member
Normal panther chameleons come with genetic defects. Now light sensitivity! Albinos live perfectly normal healthy lives, they dont have shorter life spans thats ridiculous, and not all albinos are inbred. The attraction to albinos is simple, they look awesome. People can be albino, are they defective? No they live like NORMAL people. Albinism is normal, it occurs in the wild they just don't last too long because the camouflage is absent.
rnara002
New Member
I have bred both normal and albino boas, they have no difference in complications. Eat, breed and poop all the same.
rcmike
New Member
Frankly to me most of the time the natural colors look better on chams than the morphs. I do like the veileds with more yellow and blue though. The translucents just look sick to me and that one with more black doesn't look much better.
I was in a pet store once and got to talking about dogs. I told him I had a white German shepherd once and he started going on and on about it being a genetic defect and basically talking down about it. I pointed out the store was full of fancy fish and reptile morphs that started out as a genetic defect.
I was in a pet store once and got to talking about dogs. I told him I had a white German shepherd once and he started going on and on about it being a genetic defect and basically talking down about it. I pointed out the store was full of fancy fish and reptile morphs that started out as a genetic defect.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I thought I'd read somewhere that true albino (as opposed to leucistic) snakes tended to have eye problems due to light sensitivity including early onset cataracts, chronic infections and irritations. I knew a rattlesnake keeper who had a couple of albinos. He often said how cranky and light sensitive they were in comparison to his normal ones.
If I'm mistaken I apologize. Sure albinism does occur in nature but the affected animals often have all sorts of problems because of it. Poor hair coats, skin damage, eye problems and some organ and connective tissue problems.
Rocky
Established Member
I don't understand why everyone is so against the translucent or hypomelanistic veileds. The ball python hobby has become famous due to the morphs that were genetic "defects"....
Yes, they may be defects in the wild because they inhibit their ability to hide and they will have a shorter lifespan then a normal, but the animals that have these translucent or melanistic genes in captivity won't have any sort of life span difficulty because in captivity we eliminate that natural selection.
Yes, they may be defects in the wild because they inhibit their ability to hide and they will have a shorter lifespan then a normal, but the animals that have these translucent or melanistic genes in captivity won't have any sort of life span difficulty because in captivity we eliminate that natural selection.
Cainschams
New Member
Poor, dirty little K. tavetana males never get any love. I think this guy would disagree with your statement.
Not to mention lots of chams show black coloration and not always because of stress. Hate to burst your bubble but regular veiled morphs also have some black in them
Texas Panther Man
New Member
I just try to breed animals that are healthy. And I think if i did breed this animal would I want to buy it. Because in the end when you breed anything it has to healthy and attractive to potential buyers. Jm .02
Vegas Chad
Avid Member
HaHa, what a funny thread. Some of you all really need to pull yours heads out of the sand.
Chameleonator
New Member
Don't you consider it a little hypocritical to be making those statements and owning a bulldog. They are what I considered the most man made dog breed. Originally they once looked more like pitbulls (longer legs, smaller heads, etc). Are you aware most bulldogs cannot mate on their own (due to the fact of their body structure... along w/ the politics of missing a breeding) that a majority is done with artificial insemination. Also rarely do they give natural births. Due to the high risk to the dam that the large headed pups may get stuck, most breeders opt for C-section.
Now knowing this, you did not get a bulldog for it's health. There are far more breeds out there percentage wise that has less issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is no such things as a long lived healthy bulldog. I'm just trying to prove a point that you chose something aesthically pleasing to you.
Selective breeding is as old as time (linebreeding/inbreeding). It's gone both ways good and bad.
Albinism is a genetic defect, whether found in people or chameleons. It is not normal. The fact that some genetic defect occurs in the wild does not make it a normal representation of that species.
JAdrig
Member
Also, in the wild, the closer to the beginning of the food chain we go, the less likely an animal is to survive.
But, in captivity, we have the ability to give ROACHES a 100% chance of survival...let alone the lizards that are above them on the chain...
Reptiles have a great advantage in captivity when compared to most other vertebrates( with the exception of monitors and sea turtles). They are genetically designed to produce A LOT of offspring with the hopes of only one or two making it to adulthood...In captivity, experienced breeders are usually over 90% successful with rearing babies...
But, in captivity, we have the ability to give ROACHES a 100% chance of survival...let alone the lizards that are above them on the chain...
Reptiles have a great advantage in captivity when compared to most other vertebrates( with the exception of monitors and sea turtles). They are genetically designed to produce A LOT of offspring with the hopes of only one or two making it to adulthood...In captivity, experienced breeders are usually over 90% successful with rearing babies...
