Camchester
Member
Not As yet I’ll get that one Sunday on my day off.
New to chameleons advice welcome
- Thread starter Camchester
- Start date
Not As yet I’ll get that one Sunday on my day off.
Camchester
Member
So the unit I have already has a uvb bulb in should I just leave that running too. Or can you give too much uvb
Multivitamins
Chameleon Enthusiast
I believe it IS possible to over do uv light. Don't wanna sunburn your cham lol
I think the 6% or 5.0 bulb are the more commonly used for panthers or lightly planted enclosures. They do have 12% and 10.0 bulbs for dense foliage or species specific needs. Many keepers use a solormeter to test the uvi as well. Personally i use a 6% and suppliment with natural sunlight.
But I am no expert in lighting and am sharing my understanding .
I apologize I didn't see you had already purchased a fixture. I had a dual bulb and ended up getting a quad to help my plants ( which filled into a mini jungle) and keep it well lit.
Multivitamins
Chameleon Enthusiast
The coil is absolutely better than nothing but they don't fit the needs of chameleons or their keepers it doesn't provide the coverage necessary . I think the fears of quality control have been addressed by manufacturers
Camchester
Member
Camchester
Member
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Guys this thread is depressing.
That Viv is 24x18x36. That's the same size as the Kammers use to suggest, that's 6 inches shorter then Dragonstrand breeders, and that's easily made up for by using a 3 inch bio, instead of 10 inch tall pots. It's also 2 inches wider than that breeder and 2 deeper.
Screen Cages are NOT "Required" nor is the 4ft tall you will only find in screen cages. Tons of people keep in cages this size. Can we stop this madness....
That vivarium is perfectly fine...
This is the problem with the parrot logic that is common in this hobby.
That cage size has been used by the best breeders in the world for years. It's the size the Kammers use to suggest. It's a few inches taller, and a few inches slimmer than a DS Atrium that is now suggested.
The only relevance 24x24x48 even had, was it was the size of the appropriate SCREEN cage offered, at the time. You guys hold on to it like it's the holy grail, and it's simply not.
I can't believe I am even going to say this. However this is one aspect the Facebook crowd is winning in. This exact cage is posted quite often, in the Panthers group. Not 1 person has ever questioned it. That's because this is what's used in the UK, by most folks. The size is just fine.
I prefer my animals to have some more space, however on that same token, I feel your cage is too small if it isn't 4ft wide
. The reality is, this terrarium has been used, and said to be suitable on this site and every other one for a better part of a decade. So why are we still here
"24x24x48 need it now"
When that cage type and size suggested is terrible to begin with. 24x18x36 is no worse than 24x24x48, or bills 22x16x42. 30/36x18x30/36 would be best, not just for the OP but for everyone here with your 24x24 cubes, and 4ft of mostly unused height.
This Viv has the same exact usable area of Bills Atrium cage, and bill recommends the Skyscraper in the Glass chameleon breeder podcast. Why is this Viv being demeaned?
@Ares05 well, to be fair to OP. If I came here and was told by 6 different people to throw away a 350 dollar vivarium and buy a 50 dollar screen cage, when there is tons of breeders and everyone on the Facebook groups was saying the Viv was fine. I would not be very prone to listening either.
@Gingero
There is a few different Exoterra sizes. They offer a a 18x18x36, a 24x18x36, and a 36x18x36. You can tell by the vents, there is 32 vent holes in the 24. There is 24 vents in the 18x18. This applies to all Exoterra Vivs, not just the 36 inch tall models.
To OP, to be clear everything else they have said has been spot on. For some reason this community can just not shake this extremely archaic view on enclosure and their sizing, and glass vs screen debate.
Screen will likely always have a stronger following and stronger defense, and suggestion, as even though glass has a ton of benefits as we both know it carries a hefty price tag, and that will always give screen the majority vote.
That Viv is 24x18x36. That's the same size as the Kammers use to suggest, that's 6 inches shorter then Dragonstrand breeders, and that's easily made up for by using a 3 inch bio, instead of 10 inch tall pots. It's also 2 inches wider than that breeder and 2 deeper.
Screen Cages are NOT "Required" nor is the 4ft tall you will only find in screen cages. Tons of people keep in cages this size. Can we stop this madness....
That vivarium is perfectly fine...
This is the problem with the parrot logic that is common in this hobby.
That cage size has been used by the best breeders in the world for years. It's the size the Kammers use to suggest. It's a few inches taller, and a few inches slimmer than a DS Atrium that is now suggested.
The only relevance 24x24x48 even had, was it was the size of the appropriate SCREEN cage offered, at the time. You guys hold on to it like it's the holy grail, and it's simply not.
I can't believe I am even going to say this. However this is one aspect the Facebook crowd is winning in. This exact cage is posted quite often, in the Panthers group. Not 1 person has ever questioned it. That's because this is what's used in the UK, by most folks. The size is just fine.
I prefer my animals to have some more space, however on that same token, I feel your cage is too small if it isn't 4ft wide
. The reality is, this terrarium has been used, and said to be suitable on this site and every other one for a better part of a decade. So why are we still here"24x24x48 need it now"
When that cage type and size suggested is terrible to begin with. 24x18x36 is no worse than 24x24x48, or bills 22x16x42. 30/36x18x30/36 would be best, not just for the OP but for everyone here with your 24x24 cubes, and 4ft of mostly unused height.
This Viv has the same exact usable area of Bills Atrium cage, and bill recommends the Skyscraper in the Glass chameleon breeder podcast. Why is this Viv being demeaned?
@Ares05 well, to be fair to OP. If I came here and was told by 6 different people to throw away a 350 dollar vivarium and buy a 50 dollar screen cage, when there is tons of breeders and everyone on the Facebook groups was saying the Viv was fine. I would not be very prone to listening either.
@Gingero
There is a few different Exoterra sizes. They offer a a 18x18x36, a 24x18x36, and a 36x18x36. You can tell by the vents, there is 32 vent holes in the 24. There is 24 vents in the 18x18. This applies to all Exoterra Vivs, not just the 36 inch tall models
.To OP, to be clear everything else they have said has been spot on. For some reason this community can just not shake this extremely archaic view on enclosure and their sizing, and glass vs screen debate.
Screen will likely always have a stronger following and stronger defense, and suggestion, as even though glass has a ton of benefits as we both know it carries a hefty price tag, and that will always give screen the majority vote.
Last edited:
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
Not sure how long you have had your set up, but if it is pretty new, now might be the time to try and exchange it and try to save some money. I know that is the frustrating part. You obviously spent a fair deal on your set up according to all the info you had. Now you are here and they are telling you to start over. It hurts a bit I have felt it. The advice here is very good. They challenge each other on the most up to date care. That is why when new owners come they are all No way! But I was told.
I started in the 70s and 80s It was really rough then.
You are researching, and obviously care that is what matters. I will bet everyone here has made their own mistakes. Most of what we know in the pet trade is trial and error. Today's pets are just lucky they are born in an era where information is available.
No way! But I was told.I started in the 70s and 80s It was really rough then.
You are researching, and obviously care that is what matters. I will bet everyone here has made their own mistakes. Most of what we know in the pet trade is trial and error. Today's pets are just lucky they are born in an era where information is available.
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
Not sure how long you have had your set up, but if it is pretty new, now might be the time to try and exchange it and try to save some money. I know that is the frustrating part. You obviously spent a fair deal on your set up according to all the info you had. Now you are here and they are telling you to start over. It hurts a bit I have felt it. The advice here is very good. They challenge each other on the most up to date care. That is why when new owners come they are all
I started in the 70s and 80s It was really rough then.
You are researching, and obviously care that is what matters. I will bet everyone here has made their own mistakes. Most of what we know in the pet trade is trial and error. Today's pets are just lucky they are born in an era where information is available.
Why angry ?
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Not sure how long you have had your set up, but if it is pretty new, now might be the time to try and exchange it and try to save some money. I know that is the frustrating part. You obviously spent a fair deal on your set up according to all the info you had. Now you are here and they are telling you to start over. It hurts a bit I have felt it. The advice here is very good. They challenge each other on the most up to date care. That is why when new owners come they are all
I started in the 70s and 80s It was really rough then.
You are researching, and obviously care that is what matters. I will bet everyone here has made their own mistakes. Most of what we know in the pet trade is trial and error. Today's pets are just lucky they are born in an era where information is available.
Once again, THAT Viv Is NOT TOO SMALL.....
That Viv is perfectly fine....
There is no realism in saying its too small, because its 36 tall instead of 48.
No offense to them, but most of the folks saying that viv is too small, are new keepers them selves. Parroting what they were told, WRONG information that you cannot keep chams in glass and 24x24x48 is needed. Its NOT TRUE.
Brody thought it was smaller, than it is, he had since retracted that too small comment on the other thread.
The Anti Glass theme is getting tiring. We have had, tons of studys, Biologists, Vets, long term breeders, breeding for 30-40 years, Push glass as fine, and say stop with the "24x24x48 screen" and yet, still everyday, there is someone else parroting the same misinformation, frequently.
The only reason that 24x24x48 saying even exists, is that is what Reptibreeze made. Thats it, there is no secret sauce that says they have to have 48 inch tall cage. Especially in a bio viv, where the 12 inch tall pots are replaced with 4 inches of dirt. 24 wide is a good minimum width, 24 deep would be ideal, 18 will suffice. 36 tall is just fine. With the Kammers saying that 30 tall is fine.
Dragonstrand Atrium, is 30x18x30, this viv trades the 30 width for 24, so 6 inches less, for the 36 height, so the usable space is the same, just height vs width.
If that wasn't what you meant, then my apologies, but its how it seemed with the "I know that is the frustrating part. You obviously spent a fair deal on your set up according to all the info you had. Now you are here and they are telling you to start over."
He doesn't need to start over, and he doesn't need to use a honestly junk, and hard to provide in screen cage. Screen is in no way superior to an Exoterra, outside of price, IMO. Screen has some places its useful, recreating a rain forest in your Air Conditioned home, is not one of them.
Last edited:
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
Once again, THAT Viv Is NOT TOO SMALL.....
That Viv is perfectly fine....
There is no realism in saying its too small, because its 36 tall instead of 48.
No offense to them, but most of the folks saying that viv is too small, are new keepers them selves. Parroting what they were, WRONG inforamtion that you cannot keep chams in glass and 24x24x48 is needed. Its NOT TRUE.
Brody thought it was smaller, than it is, he had since retracted that too small comment on the other thread.
Didn't say it was. Lots of factors. Only that if he planed to upgrade and could still return his it could save money.
I have seen many setups with small viv next to free climb. Too small would would be hard to fully claim on this one.
I would never want to suggest that you can only care for a pet by throwing money at it.
I agree this cage is not "Too Small"
That Viv is perfectly fine....
There is no realism in saying its too small, because its 36 tall instead of 48.
No offense to them, but most of the folks saying that viv is too small, are new keepers them selves. Parroting what they were, WRONG inforamtion that you cannot keep chams in glass and 24x24x48 is needed. Its NOT TRUE.
Brody thought it was smaller, than it is, he had since retracted that too small comment on the other thread.
Didn't say it was. Lots of factors. Only that if he planed to upgrade and could still return his it could save money.
I have seen many setups with small viv next to free climb. Too small would would be hard to fully claim on this one.
I would never want to suggest that you can only care for a pet by throwing money at it.
I agree this cage is not "Too Small"
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh okay, my bad then, I misunderstood what you meant.
I thought you were on the "Get a 24x24x48 screen, and save money" bandwagon lol.
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
The Anti Glass theme is getting tiring. We have had, tons of studys, Biologists, Vets, long term breeders, breeding for 30-40 years, Push glass as fine, and say stop with the "24x24x48 screen" and yet, still everyday, there is someone else parroting the same misinformation, frequently.
I agree with all you say. There is not a "Right Way" to keep a chameleon. One thing for sure money is not the answer. Knowledge is.
I agree with all you say. There is not a "Right Way" to keep a chameleon. One thing for sure money is not the answer. Knowledge is.
Redman
Avid Member
I have been a long long time fish breeder, among my other hobbies, and the one thing that I know for sure it that there is absolutely no single "ONLY WAY TO DO IT" in dealing with living creatures.
What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. My advice has always been "Think of the animal first, and do what works best for them with what you can live with."
What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. My advice has always been "Think of the animal first, and do what works best for them with what you can live with."
Camchester
Member
The viv a have is 90x45x90cm
People keep telling me it’s too small it’s the biggest exo Terra I can buy.
I live in the uk so mesh tents are hard to keep the temps & humidity stable
But to me this viv is perfectly fine
People keep telling me it’s too small it’s the biggest exo Terra I can buy.
I live in the uk so mesh tents are hard to keep the temps & humidity stable
But to me this viv is perfectly fine
Attachments
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
The Viv in the OP, is 60x45x90 to be fair, which is fine but your new 90x45x90 is better.
I said the new one was too small if it was 90Wx45Dx60T, as it had looked that orientation in the photos on a phone. 90x45x90 is perfectly fine.
Glass is perfectly fine, and IMO better.
