New to chams(flap-necked chams?)

[rrcoolj]

Hello everyone, I have gotten a recent re-intrest in chams and I am looking to maybe get one. I am not a beginner herp keeper. I currently have a Argentine black and white tegu and 2 leopard geckos although I have kept many things over the years. I am looking for a smaller "display" animal that I won't have to handle so I figured chams were perfect. Hopefully they will be interestiong to watch.

Anyway what drew me to flap necks is that I have read that they have similar needs and are as easy as veiled to take care of but don't need a massive enclosure because they are much smaller. Is this true? There is litterally no info on them. As you can imagine an 8ft tegu enclosure takes up quite a bit of room so I don't want a huge 4'x2'x2' enclosure. Any comments?

 

[lisa h]

If you do a search on the forums you can find a bit of information here. On the plus side they don't need the large enclosure a veiled or panther needs. Flapnecks are usually fairly cheap, and are often available as wild caught. People don't seem to have a lot of success with them, and I'm not really sure why. Lack of info, or is there a lack of info because people are having little success? Circular reasoning, I know, but that's kinda where we're at with them. I hope you can find the info you're looking for. I kept one for only a short time, as it did not survive (it was not healthy when I bought it). I had a difficult time finding the information when I did my initial research.

 

[rrcoolj]

Well thanks for the info. I found a website(flchams.com) that apparently sells captive flap necked so i was going to order from them. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[lisa h]

Well if you can get a captive born one, you may have a better chance at success. I don't think they are a great starter cham though. Just not encough info out there. Flchams is one of the forums sponsors. Good luck!

 

[whitespyder]

flap-necks are great. my first chameleon was a flap-neck and i bought her as an adult from a family owned petshop and had her for close to two years. she died of mouth rot which she had signs of when i first got her. she was roughly the same size of my current female veiled but i kept her in a smaller enclosure (i was not well educated with chameleons when i bought her but she managed to be very hardy with all the mistakes i made). of course i would suggest to research husbandry beforehand. i probably was just very lucky! i definitely want to keep them again and this time do it right

 

[rrcoolj]

A bit of mixed reviews. Well I plan to do an aluminum screen cage and put it on my tegu cage so it's high up. I know how they like that. I also know they like moving water and plenty of cover. cage carpet as substrate. This is just general stuff so you know I am not completely incompetent.

 

[lisa h]

Didn't think you were LOL. No cage carpet though -- it's a breeding ground for bacteria. Most keepers don't use substrate at all. Are you planning on a dripper for "moving water"?

 

[rrcoolj]

How about newspaper? I thought about the dripping water method also.

 

[lisa h]

Some folks will use paper towel, but most use nothing at all. Dripping water is best, along with misting (either by hand or with an automatic mister). If you can have a dripper going most of the day, that's great.

BTW, I didn't mean to be a downer about the Flapnecks. When I got mine only a few months ago I talked with several people here and we were discussing how there is not a lot of info on them. Just back and forth stuff -- I don't think we made any conclusions as to why there aren't more of them in captivity. I do think they are delightful though, and will probably have another at some point.

 

[warpdrive]

there is some grat info in Petr Necas' book, Chameleons - Nature's hidden jewels.

keep them more or less like Panthers.

such as 50% humidity when cage is more or less dry. ambiant temps around 75F. basking temp around 85 - 88 F.
misting 2 to 3 times a day, with a dripper that lasts about 1 to 2 hours on most days....longer if you think your going to miss a misting.

an 18x18x36 should be fine for one...but if it's a baby, then start off with a smaller cage.
a standard household light bulb for basking, say a 40w or 60w bulb.
don't forget a linear floresent UVB bulb like the reptisun 5.0 for it's UVB needs.
plenty of real plants and vines/sticks to walk around on, is also needed.

dusting should NOT be done like a fast growing animal such as a panther or veiled.
try once a week with just calcium and once every two months with D3.
gutloading should be above average, so don't forget to add orange slices, strawberries, and blueberries (every now and then) so you don't have to use a vitamin supliment.

I hope that helped a little.

Harry

 

[rrcoolj]

Thanks guys. I wouldn't want to use live plants in the grow out tank but in the main enclosure sounds fine. They have a pretty low basking spot and uvb is fairly low for them too. I gutload all my insects so will they be fine with that? I am trying to get a roach coloy going but I am really not a cricket person. Can I use mealies since I breed them for my leos? And can adults take superworms? I would still feed crix just not nearly as often. As well as other stuff as treats like waxworms.

 

[warpdrive]

stay away from mealies as they can cause impaction....baby supers are better.
if you don't mind roaches then you can skip using crickets, but try to use at least 3 different feeders each month, if not more.

try silkworms, hornworms, waxworm moths (the worms are fatty so only use once in a blue noon), and butterworms too.
most will have to be ordered online, but your cham will love you for the extra goodies.

Harry

 

[rrcoolj]

baby supers sound fine until i get the roach colony going. And I could defiantly order other foods. Whats their food intake as babys and as adults?

 

[warpdrive]

baby supers sound fine until i get the roach colony going. And I could defiantly order other foods. Whats their food intake as babys and as adults?

baby supers are not fine as a staple but used once or twice a week is fine.
7-10 crickets/roaches per day when young and half that every other day when adult...say 10 to 12 months old.
(try to find out the hatch date so you know the age of the animal...if you can)

as for the catipillars or worms, remember that they will normaly count as two or three crickets/dubias, depending on the size used.

Harry

 

[rrcoolj]

Would silkworms work as a staple? Sorry for the questions just trying to get a feel of what I should be doing. Im pretty sure the website tells me the age of the animal.

 

[AReptile]

Silkworms work fine as a staple, you should get them. Only problem with them is keeping them alive, especially if you want to start a colony.

 

[matty0470]

My Flapneck

I recently purchased a flapneck about 3 months ago kept the cage regulated at 88f and 92 humid, and she is not doing well at all, infact she cought a bacterial infection and now im giving her shots every 3 days, she has eaten in a while. From what I understood from my vet i took her too is they are a very hard cham to keep, as of now I think she is dying ive been trying to feed her baby food but she quit eating a couple days ago ((( any suggestion on a new breed from anyone ?

 

[warpdrive]

again, I personaly don't like to use the word staple when talking about chameleons.
the reason is simple...most people will think that it is OK to then feed one type of food almost every day and the rest of the feeders is basicly used as snacks or supliments to the staple.

as such, no, even silkies are not good as a staple as they are missing a vital componant that a cham needs every now and then. they are also poor in the Phos to Cal ratio like crickets are, and unlike crickets and dubias, are not so easy to gutload with high calcium foods before they get fed off.

so are silkies bad? NO
but if used 2 to 3 times a week, along with at least 2 other food items, they make a great feeder to use.

a good example of what I'm talking about is say on Mon you feed silkies, Tues you feed some dubia, on weds you feed silkies again, then on Thurs you feed some baby supers, on Fri you feed silkies again, on Sat you feed some dubia again, finaly on Sun you feed some more silkies.
if this is what you mean as a staple, then yes, they make a great staple.

but in all honesty, crickets and dubia make a far better staple because they can be gutloaded far better in order to have a better balance of Phos to Cal ratio...without suplimental dusting of the feeders.(and you don't want to use too much suplimentation for this animal)

I recently purchased a flapneck about 3 months ago kept the cage regulated at 88f and 92 humid, and she is not doing well at all, infact she cought a bacterial infection and now im giving her shots every 3 days, she has eaten in a while. From what I understood from my vet i took her too is they are a very hard cham to keep, as of now I think she is dying ive been trying to feed her baby food but she quit eating a couple days ago ((( any suggestion on a new breed from anyone ?

if just your basking spot is 88F and the rest of your cage is about 75F then the temps are not bad. if your whole cage is 88F then this is a big problem.

92% humidity?
if this is only after you mist and the humidity drops to about 50% once dry then you are OK.
but if it's almost always 92% RH then this is the reason for the bactirial infection.
I highly recamend doing some reading on how to care for chameleons in general before looking to buy something new, as I'm not too sure your understanding of how to keep then in captivity is at this moment.

Harry

 

[rrcoolj]

So basically I need to have like 3 food items available at all times and just mix in other things as I go? Sounds good.

 

[matty0470]

Yes Warp

Its 88 in the basking area, and only high humid after my misting system turns off, i think my cham took such a hit from the bacterial infection that she is getting MBD. Her tail is very limp and doesnt curl up. and she often has her eyes closed and is very weak and timid where as the two previous months she would scurry all over the place. I've actually been feeding her babyfood mango, and chicken and gravy (high protein and cals). Its strange because day to day she is good then bad then good. Do you think if I put some cricks in she might start eating ? Or is it envolped to a negative outcome ?