New To Chams Want To Make Sure I'm On The Right Track

frillielover17

New Member
Hello everyone, my name is Candice. I'm new to the site and owning Chameleons but not reptiles in general. I currently own a Frilled Dragon, Bearded Dragon and a Rhinoceros Iguana and now a baby Veild Chameleon.

I've had some prior experience with them while working at a reptile shop but I would like to make sure I'm headed in the right direction with this Chameleon because I would like it to live a long and healthy life.

My setup specs are as follows:

Enclosure type: 50% glass 50% screen

Enclosure size: ~ 24"L x 21"H x 18" W

Lighting schedule: 12 hours daylight 12 hours darkness

UVB Type: Brand new Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 florescent tube

Temps:
- Basking: is a gradient from 90-105
- Ambient: 80ish
- Night: 70
** Basking temps measured with an infrared temp gun and ambient temps measured with digital thermometer

Hydration is achieved through misting 3x a day along with a waterall that is cleaned daily to avoid bacterial buildup

Decor: Vines, fake foliage, cork bark pieces, petrified grapewood.

Substrate: Tightly packed but moist organic soil (no chemicals or fertilizers)

Diet: 1/4" crickets and small phoenix worms and silkworms (cup fed)

Supplementation: 1 feeding dusted with Rep-cal calcium w/D3 (6 days a week) 1 feeding dusted with Rep-cal multivitamin Herptivite (1 day a week)

My cham is CBB what I would suspect only a couple weeks old (4-6 I think) and we purchased him on Friday 10/1/2010. We haven't handled him at all so he could settle in and plan to give him a couple more days to a week. He happily chows down on his insects. He is very alert and active, just finished shedding, drinks from moving water and when misted. I plan on measuring him and weighing him once he settles in. So once again, any comments or suggestions are welcomed.

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3 things I would suggest so far-lower your temps IMMEDIATELY before you cook your cham. For that age don't go above 85, increasing as he gets older. Get rid of the waterfall, and get a calcium with no d3 that you will use 5-6x weekly. Use one with D3 a few times a month and the multivite a few times a month.
 
Thank you for the suggestions. My questions is this however, with almost every other reptile I've had, the calcium without the D3 should only be used when offering natural sunlight or an MVB. Any specific reason why chams are different? Also, everything I've read on chams was a basking temp of 90-105. Nothing ever specified for younger ones needing cooler temps. What would be the reason for getting rid of the waterfall. I'm only asking questions so I have a better understanding of things. Not trying to question your keeping ability
 
Welcome to the forum!

I have red a lot on this forum to know what all we used to say ( :)
- remove the soil from the cage
- i dont know how could you keep the waterwall totally clean, i mean the water itself, so maybe its not a useful or/and necessary thing.. as you said, because of bacteria build up !!! always a possibility when there is water and warm around! Other reason is: chameleons live high up on trees, not on rocks or riverbanks to have a waterfall around them :)

Btw i like the cage at all, i would add a few more branches or vines to climb on.

Best wishes! :)

Ricardo
 
Here read this. Jann is very experienced and helpful to new Cham owners and she puts this out for new Vield owners to read.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

But I will second the above in referance to the temps too high for a baby, babys do not need that high of a basking temp. Also I would completely get rid of the subtrate, not good for consumption but it also is a bacteria breeding ground! Same with the waterfall, although I know you said you plan to clean it daily... waterfalls are not recommended by knowledgable keepers.

There is allot of great imput on here but one has to be willing to listen and learn. Good luck with your Veild.
 
I'm fairly certain that the waterfall stays clean because I work from home and have the time to constantly check on all of my reptile's water and disinfect and refill at least once daily. No debris, fecal matter or bug gets in the water and I'm able to remove the whole thing and clean it well. Not trying to argue but just stating that it is well maintained and cleaned. I use it mainly to help with humidity because my home is not a very humid place because of my other lizards. I also chose the dirt substrate for the purpose of aiding in humidity. I would assume the reason for saying "no" to the dirt would be impaction risks correct? Being that they are arboreal they spend very little time near the ground and his food is always in a cup above the dirt I don't worry too much on him ingesting anything. This is my personal choice and I know the work that's needed to make particle substrates work.

I fully intend to add more vines and all. I actually just got a gift card for a pet store which I plan on using to buy more vines lol.

Thank you for the suggestions and well wishes Ricardo. =]
 
Here read this. Jann is very experienced and helpful to new Cham owners and she puts this out for new Vield owners to read.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

But I will second the above in referance to the temps too high for a baby, babys do not need that high of a basking temp. Also I would completely get rid of the subtrate, not good for consumption but it also is a bacteria breeding ground! Same with the waterfall, although I know you said you plan to clean it daily... waterfalls are not recommended by knowledgable keepers.

There is allot of great imput on here but one has to be willing to listen and learn. Good luck with your Veild.

I appreciate the link you posted however, I wish it went into more detail about the specifics on why the no D3 vs the D3. I am well aware of the dangers of not maintaining a particle substrate properly but have the time to actually maintain it pretty much constantly. The soil can harbor bad bacteria from rotten food and feces but it also contains natural beneficial bacteria as well. In my opinion you don't want things to be too sterile or you compromise the immune system of the animal (same goes for people too)
 
I appreciate the link you posted however, I wish it went into more detail about the specifics on why the no D3 vs the D3. I am well aware of the dangers of not maintaining a particle substrate properly but have the time to actually maintain it pretty much constantly. The soil can harbor bad bacteria from rotten food and feces but it also contains natural beneficial bacteria as well. In my opinion you don't want things to be too sterile or you compromise the immune system of the animal (same goes for people too)

I am sure if you do have any question for Jann she would be happy to answer them for you, as mentioned she is a knowledgable resource.
 
One more thing... no offense....

I don't mean to offend you by saying this but in the thread you posted you stated you are new to chams and want to be sure your on the right track... however you seem to have a stubborn mindset and are unwilling to learn or take advise from others who are more experience than you self admittedly. So I am a bit baffled why you would ask for help and then argue with any suggestion. If you have it all figured out good for you but then why bother asking?:confused:
 
I don't mean to offend you by saying this but in the thread you posted you stated you are new to chams and want to be sure your on the right track... however you seem to have a stubborn mindset and are unwilling to learn or take advise from others who are more experience than you self admittedly. So I am a bit baffled why you would ask for help and then argue with any suggestion. If you have it all figured out good for you but then why bother asking?:confused:

To me she is simply asking why she has to do the things you tell her there is nothing asking about it to better educate yourself if you feel good about your methods then you shouldent have a problem explaining them in detail and if you do then dont offer advice without the thought of giving a explantion. Before this turns into a bad flame war back to topic people say you have to seperate d3 and calcium and multivitamians because yes chameleons are reptiles too they are all diffrent like humans are so these reptiles can overdose on d3 so its better to keep d3 and calcium seprate to keep track of the times you give them rather then just give a mix of calcium and d3 because of od (So keeping track makes sure no od.) and a multi vity seprate for overall health that is the reason sounds weird but they can get problem s with supplment overdosage.
 
The only thing I don't seem to agree with is the substrate issue. Everything else I asked a lot of questions about but haven't been stubborn about it. I know from other reptiles that substrate is a heated debate and when it comes to that particular piece of husbandry I don't always go with the "norm" of caresheet care. I am genuinely curious about the calcium and was surprised about the temps. The temps have been adjusted (advice taken) and the calcium issue I'm trying to research at the moment. To say that I am unwilling to learn is a bit offensive no matter how you put it. I am in fact trying to learn and have adjusted what I needed to except for factors I feel that just come down to personal choice. Caring for animals isn't a 1 way deal. There are ways that work for some and ways that work for others.

I asked the questions I asked and made the statements I made because sometimes all you get on forums is repeated information and when a person asks why this is the norm or the preferred practice, the person can only say that this is what they've been told and have no real idea why things are done that way.
 
Chameleons are very sensitive to high amounts of d3. That being said, certain brands can be used more often than others. Waterfalls are a bad idea because chameleons in general like to poop in water, they also like to drink the poopy water. That's bad. For humidity you should be able to maintain it enough with live plants and misting. This is a veiled and he is not as sensitive to humidity as other species. Just make sure he is getting enough water!

Substrate is bad because some chameleons, veileds in particular, seek out the dirt and eat it. I only recommend sifted organic soil as a substrate if you MUST use one. In the long run, it is just safer not to. If you want to risk it then go ahead.
 
Thank you for a more detailed answer to the calcium question. I know well that multivitamin should always be used sparingly because overdosing on certain vitamins is easy in some reptiles. I use a multivitamin without D3 because I mostly use a calcium with D3 and don't want to overdose. It's not like I don't have a calcium without D3 because I do and I use it in the summer when my guys get natural sunlight and when I use my MVBs so they do not overdose in D3.
 
Like I said no offense...

The only thing I don't seem to agree with is the substrate issue. Everything else I asked a lot of questions about but haven't been stubborn about it. I know from other reptiles that substrate is a heated debate and when it comes to that particular piece of husbandry I don't always go with the "norm" of caresheet care. I am genuinely curious about the calcium and was surprised about the temps. The temps have been adjusted (advice taken) and the calcium issue I'm trying to research at the moment. To say that I am unwilling to learn is a bit offensive no matter how you put it. I am in fact trying to learn and have adjusted what I needed to except for factors I feel that just come down to personal choice. Caring for animals isn't a 1 way deal. There are ways that work for some and ways that work for others.

I asked the questions I asked and made the statements I made because sometimes all you get on forums is repeated information and when a person asks why this is the norm or the preferred practice, the person can only say that this is what they've been told and have no real idea why things are done that way.

I realize no matter how it's said it sounds offensive that's why I said no offense... really I meant it. :eek:
But please understand I have seen many threads from newcomers and they ask and then were not willing to make adjustments and the next thing you know they post a thread with a sick Cham problem... that was most likely due to husbandry errors. So the main purpose of this forum is to ensure our Chams get the best posible chance for a "healthy and long life"... Good luck with your guy! You can also use the search button to pull up old threads that address issues like supplements ect. you may want to search a few things of interest to you.
 
what the other guy said dirt is bad DEPENDING on which one because it can clog up his socrhagus(spelt wrong) lol and make him not eat and he starves himself to death i explained the calicum and d3 problem and waterfall is because its a breeding ground for bacteria and mold but if you will clean it daily then I see no problem to it other than that its ok any other questions im new to but I have gotten alot of info by reading forums and asking people dont mind if people get mad they just confused its always good to be curious.
 
The only thing I don't seem to agree with is the substrate issue. Everything else I asked a lot of questions about but haven't been stubborn about it. I know from other reptiles that substrate is a heated debate and when it comes to that particular piece of husbandry I don't always go with the "norm" of caresheet care. I am genuinely curious about the calcium and was surprised about the temps. The temps have been adjusted (advice taken) and the calcium issue I'm trying to research at the moment. To say that I am unwilling to learn is a bit offensive no matter how you put it. I am in fact trying to learn and have adjusted what I needed to except for factors I feel that just come down to personal choice. Caring for animals isn't a 1 way deal. There are ways that work for some and ways that work for others.

I asked the questions I asked and made the statements I made because sometimes all you get on forums is repeated information and when a person asks why this is the norm or the preferred practice, the person can only say that this is what they've been told and have no real idea why things are done that way.

From what I know about subtrate. The reason you should not have it with a cham is the way they eat. They can shot their tounge out and pull back some ground cover with it. And then there is a whole list of things that can happen. He can choke, it can become blocked, its not healthy to eat ground. There is so many reasons why ground cover is just a no no for chams. What we all have to relize is Its about what the cham needs, Not what we think he needs or what is pretty.

Hope this helps:)
 
what the other guy said dirt is bad DEPENDING on which one because it can clog up his socrhagus(spelt wrong) lol and make him not eat and he starves himself to death i explained the calicum and d3 problem and waterfall is because its a breeding ground for bacteria and mold but if you will clean it daily then I see no problem to it other than that its ok any other questions im new to but I have gotten alot of info by reading forums and asking people dont mind if people get mad they just confused its always good to be curious.
Well my dirt is sifted and organic. I always preferred to sift it when I used it because of the larger pieces that tend to get stuck in it. The waterfall is disinfected and run through a series of boiling hot washes and such so bacteria isn't going to be an issue. If I know I won't be able to tend to the waterfall I simply remove it for the time being. I know many of you out there probably think I'm a stubborn person who's cham is going to die in a couple weeks but I can promise you I'm not like that. I ask questions because I want to learn and I try be open to new methods of care that may not exactly be accepted as the norm. If I see it isn't working for my animal I switch it but if I see it working for him I keep my method. Like someone mentioned before, every animal is different, even those of the same species and who would know your animal better than yourself. Sometimes you have to adjust things to how they want it

I realize no matter how it's said it sounds offensive that's why I said no offense... really I meant it. :eek:
But please understand I have seen many threads from newcomers and they ask and then were not willing to make adjustments and the next thing you know they post a thread with a sick Cham problem... that was most likely due to husbandry errors. So the main purpose of this forum is to ensure our Chams get the best posible chance for a "healthy and long life"... Good luck with your guy! You can also use the search button to pull up old threads that address issues like supplements ect. you may want to search a few things of interest to you.
I understand where you are coming from Gensen. I know you are passionate about chams, yours and others. I have no issues with the calcium supplements I just wanted to know why that was the case. The last couple of posts helped me figure out why that was the best way to go. I have a no D3 calcium too so I will use that more than the other. No big deal to me. Once again, the temps were adjusted in the 80s now so that is taken care of.
 
From what I know about subtrate. The reason you should not have it with a cham is the way they eat. They can shot their tounge out and pull back some ground cover with it. And then there is a whole list of things that can happen. He can choke, it can become blocked, its not healthy to eat ground. There is so many reasons why ground cover is just a no no for chams. What we all have to relize is Its about what the cham needs, Not what we think he needs or what is pretty.

Hope this helps:)

My choice of substrate wasn't for looks honestly. I need it for a bit of help with humidity. Having a screen enclosure and no real plants makes it a bit difficult when you have a dry home. I'm well aware of risks involved with particle substrates which is why I've gone and feed only in a cup or by tongs and sifted the dirt as well.
 
No problem!

Ok, sounds good... again good luck with your guy and post future pics as he grows up! We all love our Chams and we all enjoys pics! :D
 
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