Newbie

[J.brownster]

Hi guys and girls, newbie here but do have a few questions I’m hoping to get some advice on, I’ve been browsing away through all your posts and got great info, pics of Vivariums and best of all looking at all your chameleons, been thinking about a cham for years now had bearded dragons, snakes, and marine fish in the past, so I’m looking at different Vivarium set ups, so what’s best???? Mesh type all open or closed Vivarium type with ventilation and glass front? Bioactive or not?? I would like to get to as close to automated as I can do fogging, misting is it a must?? I see some people just give a light spray with a bottle, best plants to have? Sorry for all the questions I live in the uk and we don’t seem to have as much on offer as you guys do in the us.

 

[Redman]

What is best really depends on what variety of Cham you are going with, your home setup, and your budget.

 

[Kaizen]

Hi guys and girls, newbie here but do have a few questions I’m hoping to get some advice on, I’ve been browsing away through all your posts and got great info, pics of Vivariums and best of all looking at all your chameleons, been thinking about a cham for years now had bearded dragons, snakes, and marine fish in the past, so I’m looking at different Vivarium set ups, so what’s best???? Mesh type all open or closed Vivarium type with ventilation and glass front? Bioactive or not?? I would like to get to as close to automated as I can do fogging, misting is it a must?? I see some people just give a light spray with a bottle, best plants to have? Sorry for all the questions I live in the uk and we don’t seem to have as much on offer as you guys do in the us.

So, there isn’t a quick answer here. The best approach is to figure out the environmental conditions of the place you intend to keep your new Cham. What are the daytime temp and humidity, what are the nighttime temps and humidity. Let’s say, for instance, that the daytime temp and humidity in your prospective chameleon room are 78 and 40-50% respectively; and the nightime temp and humidity are 70 and 60% respectively. Without too much effort, you can easily tweak things such that a screen cage will be suitable for a panther or veiled chameleon. You’d need to find a way to get that nightime humidity up higher, but that’s easily done. A partial glass enclosure would also work here, but you’ll have to figure out how to keep those ambient daytime temps down. On the other hand, if you plan to keep, say, a Jackson’s, there’ll be more work to do. Daytime ambient temps will have to be significantly lower, as will the nightime temps. Likewise, nightime humidity will require a significant increase. This becomes tricky, as screen will assist in keeping daytime temps lower, but glass will make keeping nightime humidity levels up. Perhaps, however, you have a cooler room in your house where the daytime temps hover around 70, and the night drops into the low 60s or high 50s. These temps are more in line with montane species such as Jackson’s, you’ll just have to dial in the humidity levels. In this case, a glass enclosure might work best.
Not trying to snow you, just suggesting that you examine the conditions you’re working with, figure out which species you want to keep, them buy the setup that will help you achieve the proper care conditions for that species, given your conditions.

 

[J.brownster]

So, there isn’t a quick answer here. The best approach is to figure out the environmental conditions of the place you intend to keep your new Cham. What are the daytime temp and humidity, what are the nighttime temps and humidity. Let’s say, for instance, that the daytime temp and humidity in your prospective chameleon room are 78 and 40-50% respectively; and the nightime temp and humidity are 70 and 60% respectively. Without too much effort, you can easily tweak things such that a screen cage will be suitable for a panther or veiled chameleon. You’d need to find a way to get that nightime humidity up higher, but that’s easily done. A partial glass enclosure would also work here, but you’ll have to figure out how to keep those ambient daytime temps down. On the other hand, if you plan to keep, say, a Jackson’s, there’ll be more work to do. Daytime ambient temps will have to be significantly lower, as will the nightime temps. Likewise, nightime humidity will require a significant increase. This becomes tricky, as screen will assist in keeping daytime temps lower, but glass will make keeping nightime humidity levels up. Perhaps, however, you have a cooler room in your house where the daytime temps hover around 70, and the night drops into the low 60s or high 50s. These temps are more in line with montane species such as Jackson’s, you’ll just have to dial in the humidity levels. In this case, a glass enclosure might work best.
Not trying to snow you, just suggesting that you examine the conditions you’re working with, figure out which species you want to keep, them buy the setup that will help you achieve the proper care conditions for that species, given your conditions.

thank you for the detailed response I thought I had put which species sorry, so I’m looking at a veiled Cham, room temperature during the day in the winter is around 70 increasing to 78 in the summer, night time temperatures 55 increasing to 65 in the summer, living in the uk we never have high temps, I will need to check humidity and see the results so I will buy a gauge for temp and humidity today and take some readings over a few days. I’m not scared of building the correct enclosure if need be just want the best environment for the Cham, don’t really have a budget, if something is needed then it needs it I spent thousands on getting the correct setup for my marine fish which was payed back just seeing the quality of the habitat they had, I would like to get something set up for a month so I can get the correct balance before getting the cham.

 

[Gordita0405]

Hi and welcome !!!
Take a look at
https://chameleonacademy.com/
It has everything you need to know for a newbie and much more !! You can also listen to the podcast and catch up on all the chameleon infos ! Enjoy !!!

 

[Kaizen]

That sounds awesome! Veileds are among the most forgiving species, and certainly a great place to start. They are a large species, so the bigger the enclosure, the better.

Cage size: MINIMUM cage size recommended is (LxWxH) 2x2x4, or 2x3x3. The former size is most often found in screen cages; the latter in glass. But again, these are minimums, and there is no harm (and tons of benefit) to going larger and/or building your own.

Cage material: It seems like both screen and glass with work for you. Without knowing your humidity levels, I don’t know how much work you’ll have to put in to tweak things, but one question to ask yourself is how your house is heated. Forced-air, gas-fired furnaces dry the air; radiant heat, less so. Just a consideration to keep in mind. Screen enclosures have the following attributes:
Pros
- lighter/easier to move around
- cheaper
- easier to keep cooler
- provide the best amount of air flow
Cons
- make mainting high night time humidity challenging
- make containing water from misters and dripper more challenging
- admit of more feeder escapees
- structurally weak

Glass enclosures:
Pros:
- structurally strong compared to screen
- makes keeping nighttime humidity high a breeze
- fewer escapee bugs
- generally offer more insulation from environmental temp/humidity swings
- good at keeping water in
Cons:
- heavy
- can present a challenge for day time humidity drops (esp. if substrate is used)
- can heat up and retain heat from basking lamp
- expensive
- too good at keeping water in

Bio-active or not?

This is personal choice, as it comes with its own benefits and challenges. I’ll let somebody better versed in bioactivity chime in here. What I can add is that I’d hold off on going bio active until you get a couple clean fecals. Thebread on being that if, by chance, your Cham comes in with pinworm, or some other parasite, you’ll end up having to tear down the bioactive environment and start over during treatment. So, just wait a month or so before adding substrate or going bioactive, so you can make sure your not introducing a plethora of extra hiding places for parasite eggs.

humidity:

This is a hot topic right now, so I’ll try to be as non-partisan as I can. Almost everyone agrees that lower daytime humidity (as low as 30-40% for veileds) is good, and higher nighttime humidity (>90%) is also good. But there is a ton of contention about how to achieve that: should we fog at night, mist, or just have a sufficient number of plants in hopes of achieving this...or some combination thereof. I will try to be as non-partisan as I can here. Daytime humidity specs are easy to achieve with a screen enclosure, as most of our homes fall in the 40 - 50% range. Glass can be more difficult here, but tons of keepers manage it without too much hassle, as glass enclosures always have a screen top and venting in front. It's the nighttime specs that become more complicated. With screen, most people find they have to use some sort of shower curtain system to cover several sides of the cage; with glass things are simpler. The reasons proffered for high nighttime humidity are as follows:

1. It replicates what happens in the wild (this is uncontested)
2. chameleons lose less water through respiration if they're breathing in humid air over night (this one has been hotly contested, with decent arguments and evidence on both sides)

What ever method you decide on to raise nighttime humidity, make sure to incorporate it in such a way that any requisite maintenance on the humidity system can be carried out easily--this is especially true if you decide to use a fogger!

hydration:

While this is tied in heavily with humidity, it warrants a separate section. Chameleons do not typically recognize bowls as sources of water. They mainly drink droplets/condensation off of leaves. So a daytime dripper is a great idea. Some people elect to mist during the day too, but too much day time misting makes it difficult to hi your daytime humidity specs. What I do is mist for 3-4 minutes just before lights on, so my chams can wake up to morning dew and drink, then use a dripper during the day, then mist just after lights out. If things get really dry during the day, I'll add a short (20 sec.) mist in the afternoon.

Heat:

Veiled specs are thus:

Daytime ambient: 72 - 76
Daytime Basking: 82 - 88 (some people recommend the low side for females to reduce clutch size...but that can come later)
Nighttime ambient: 55 - 69

Lighting:

A good T5 high output linear fluorescent bulb is a must (i.d get a 10.0 or 12%), as is an additional plant growth T5 bulb if you plan to grow live plats indoors without natural light. Since you mention budget is not a huge concern, start off with buying a SOLAR METER 6.5. This will really help you set things up properly in your enclosure. You'll also need a moderately low wattage basking lamp.

Set-up:

1. A number of horizontal perching branches running across the top 2/3 of the enclosure with the highest place right under the uvb and basking bulbs and receiving 3 - 6 UVI (as per your solar meter 6.5), and a basking temp of 82-88. 2. A densely planted middle section whether your chameleon can hide, escape the heat, and sleep. 3. the bottom area that can be planted (if you go bio active and use a substrate), or clear of obstructions so you can do your housekeeping.

There's a ton more to say, but this should get you started.

 

[J.brownster]

That sounds awesome! Veileds are among the most forgiving species, and certainly a great place to start. They are a large species, so the bigger the enclosure, the better.

Cage size: MINIMUM cage size recommended is (LxWxH) 2x2x4, or 2x3x3. The former size is most often found in screen cages; the latter in glass. But again, these are minimums, and there is no harm (and tons of benefit) to going larger and/or building your own.

Cage material: It seems like both screen and glass with work for you. Without knowing your humidity levels, I don’t know how much work you’ll have to put in to tweak things, but one question to ask yourself is how your house is heated. Forced-air, gas-fired furnaces dry the air; radiant heat, less so. Just a consideration to keep in mind. Screen enclosures have the following attributes:
Pros
- lighter/easier to move around
- cheaper
- easier to keep cooler
- provide the best amount of air flow
Cons
- make mainting high night time humidity challenging
- make containing water from misters and dripper more challenging
- admit of more feeder escapees
- structurally weak

Glass enclosures:
Pros:
- structurally strong compared to screen
- makes keeping nighttime humidity high a breeze
- fewer escapee bugs
- generally offer more insulation from environmental temp/humidity swings
- good at keeping water in
Cons:
- heavy
- can present a challenge for day time humidity drops (esp. if substrate is used)
- can heat up and retain heat from basking lamp
- expensive
- too good at keeping water in

Bio-active or not?

This is personal choice, as it comes with its own benefits and challenges. I’ll let somebody better versed in bioactivity chime in here. What I can add is that I’d hold off on going bio active until you get a couple clean fecals. Thebread on being that if, by chance, your Cham comes in with pinworm, or some other parasite, you’ll end up having to tear down the bioactive environment and start over during treatment. So, just wait a month or so before adding substrate or going bioactive, so you can make sure your not introducing a plethora of extra hiding places for parasite eggs.

humidity:

This is a hot topic right now, so I’ll try to be as non-partisan as I can. Almost everyone agrees that lower daytime humidity (as low as 30-40% for veileds) is good, and higher nighttime humidity (>90%) is also good. But there is a ton of contention about how to achieve that: should we fog at night, mist, or just have a sufficient number of plants in hopes of achieving this...or some combination thereof. I will try to be as non-partisan as I can here. Daytime humidity specs are easy to achieve with a screen enclosure, as most of our homes fall in the 40 - 50% range. Glass can be more difficult here, but tons of keepers manage it without too much hassle, as glass enclosures always have a screen top and venting in front. It's the nighttime specs that become more complicated. With screen, most people find they have to use some sort of shower curtain system to cover several sides of the cage; with glass things are simpler. The reasons proffered for high nighttime humidity are as follows:

1. It replicates what happens in the wild (this is uncontested)
2. chameleons lose less water through respiration if they're breathing in humid air over night (this one has been hotly contested, with decent arguments and evidence on both sides)

What ever method you decide on to raise nighttime humidity, make sure to incorporate it in such a way that any requisite maintenance on the humidity system can be carried out easily--this is especially true if you decide to use a fogger!

hydration:

While this is tied in heavily with humidity, it warrants a separate section. Chameleons do not typically recognize bowls as sources of water. They mainly drink droplets/condensation off of leaves. So a daytime dripper is a great idea. Some people elect to mist during the day too, but too much day time misting makes it difficult to hi your daytime humidity specs. What I do is mist for 3-4 minutes just before lights on, so my chams can wake up to morning dew and drink, then use a dripper during the day, then mist just after lights out. If things get really dry during the day, I'll add a short (20 sec.) mist in the afternoon.

Heat:

Veiled specs are thus:

Daytime ambient: 72 - 76
Daytime Basking: 82 - 88 (some people recommend the low side for females to reduce clutch size...but that can come later)
Nighttime ambient: 55 - 69

Lighting:

A good T5 high output linear fluorescent bulb is a must (i.d get a 10.0 or 12%), as is an additional plant growth T5 bulb if you plan to grow live plats indoors without natural light. Since you mention budget is not a huge concern, start off with buying a SOLAR METER 6.5. This will really help you set things up properly in your enclosure. You'll also need a moderately low wattage basking lamp.

Set-up:

1. A number of horizontal perching branches running across the top 2/3 of the enclosure with the highest place right under the uvb and basking bulbs and receiving 3 - 6 UVI (as per your solar meter 6.5), and a basking temp of 82-88. 2. A densely planted middle section whether your chameleon can hide, escape the heat, and sleep. 3. the bottom area that can be planted (if you go bio active and use a substrate), or clear of obstructions so you can do your housekeeping.

There's a ton more to say, but this should get you started.

Thank you for all this information, and very much noted, I’ve decided to take on board and go against the bio active until months down the line, so I’m going to build my own from the start as I’m just not happy with the ones you can buy so I beat start planning, with the solar uv meter I do have another meter that measures uv is there anything special about the one you recommended?
So next thing is to look into some form of lining for the inside to the floor that’s not harmful to chams, then I will put wall panels over the top and make a drain away at the bottom. Thank you so much for the info very appreciated for you take the time out of your day and respond in such detail, watch this space I will do a build thread just incase I do something wrong along the way and hopefully someone will say.

 

[Kaizen]

what Uvb light meter do you have?

 

[J.brownster]

what Uvb light meter do you have?

It doesn’t have a name just says uvb detector Units of measurement 1000U W/CM2 = 1MW/CM2

 

[Kaizen]

It doesn’t have a name just says uvb detector Units of measurement 1000U W/CM2 = 1MW/CM2

Can you post a pic?

 

[J.brownster]

Can you post a pic?

If I can find it haha it’s somewhere when I had my dragon

 

[Kaizen]

If I can find it haha it’s somewhere when I had my dragon

No worries. From what I know, the uvb meters available measure uvb either via um/cm2, or else uvi. Here’s a link where the difference is well explained :

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/6-2-or-6-5-solarmeter.103134/post-948056