Newer female panther mouth concern.

[zmoore91]

so I am about a week into having the pair of panthers I received, and they weren’t being fed or housed properly. I haven’t handled either much just to allow them to get comfortable. The female is really my concern. She’s very small and is pretty picky on eating things besides crickets. She’s been doing a bit better, but today I noticed she almost has an underbite. I’m obviously concerned and going to get a fecal test done and probably have her checked out overall. I wanted to post a few pictures for you guys to see and maybe tell me if you think she’s looking okay or not. Her poop likes fine, nothing irregular about it, and I’ve rewlly fine tuned temps, diet, and all. I’ve ordered Arcadia lighting to replace compact bulbs and I’ve ordered a mist king to more consistently mist the cage when I’m not here. Lighting is on timers. Approx. age is 6 to 8 months

 

[ERKleRose]

Did you have another thread where you filled out the ask for help form and we replied? If so, could you link it? I would take both to the vet and get an exam, fecal, and bloodwork done, even an x Ray, just to make sure they don’t have anything serious from their last owner

 

[zmoore91]

◦ Your Chameleon - Female Panther, approx 6 to 8 months, in my care for 2 weeks

◦ Handling - Only have handled a couple times

◦ Feeding - i get the best feeding response from crickets, but have a Dubia colony, also offering a few supers and horn worms. Plan to get more diverse. Usually start feeding with 5 Dubia/10 crickets. Put food in cups during morning. Currently gutloading with a homemade food that came with roaches, but ordered some from a member.

◦ Supplements - Have calcium, calcium with d3, and herptivite, but switched to rapashy calcium plus. Planned on getting mineral and figured I’d rotate things. Currently only using calcium plus and using every feeding.

◦ Watering - have been just heavily spraying down cage with water bottle several times a day. Have a mistking and awaiting another nozzle to set up. Planned to mist for 1 minute multiple times through out their day cycle. I’ve watched drinking happen.

◦ Fecal Description - seems firm, Brown to dark brown color with nice white color. Planned on a vet visit next pay check, since no parasite testing has been done.

◦ History - I recently purchased a pair of chameleons from a guy who hand picked them, he housed them together (sad I know) and their diet was mainly crickets from what I gathered. Little to no supplementation was used and doubtful gutloads occurred. Both seemed underfed.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - 16x16x30 reptibreeze

◦ Lighting - Zoomed 5.0 compact uvb and daylight heat bulb. Lights are timed for 8 to 8. ***arcadia light and fixture are being shipped as we speak***

◦ Temperature - low 80s is the hottest spot and mid 70s is the lowest. My room doesn’t go below low 60s at night. Have multiple probe themometers that i use.

◦ Humidity - ordered a hydrometer, but right now I’m relying on heavily misting cage and using a dripper all day and evening.

◦ Plants - pothos and one bamboo plant.

◦ Placement - in my room away from drafts or anything.

◦ Location - elkhart, Indiana


Current Problem - My current problem is my female doesn’t look in the best shape. Can often see ribs, and it almost appears as she has an underbite. I tried getting her to eat Dubia but if she eats any it’s very sparingly, today I broke and offered crickets and she ate 6 within a minute. She “puffs up” and can get this bloated look but I don’t think she’s carrying any eggs. I have a lay bin just in case. I’m not ruling out a parasite but find it hard to believe because the male that was previously housed with her is now thriving since I’ve offered Dubia and other feeders along with supplements and gutloads. Just looking for opinions and advice outside of “go to the vet” that’s already happening next week lol.

 

[zmoore91]

UPDATED, and still looking for some answers

 

[ERKleRose]

◦ Your Chameleon - Female Panther, approx 6 to 8 months, in my care for 2 weeks

◦ Handling - Only have handled a couple times

◦ Feeding - i get the best feeding response from crickets, but have a Dubia colony, also offering a few supers and horn worms. Plan to get more diverse. Usually start feeding with 5 Dubia/10 crickets. Put food in cups during morning. Currently gutloading with a homemade food that came with roaches, but ordered some from a member.

◦ Supplements - Have calcium, calcium with d3, and herptivite, but switched to rapashy calcium plus. Planned on getting mineral and figured I’d rotate things. Currently only using calcium plus and using every feeding.

◦ Watering - have been just heavily spraying down cage with water bottle several times a day. Have a mistking and awaiting another nozzle to set up. Planned to mist for 1 minute multiple times through out their day cycle. I’ve watched drinking happen.

◦ Fecal Description - seems firm, Brown to dark brown color with nice white color. Planned on a vet visit next pay check, since no parasite testing has been done.

◦ History - I recently purchased a pair of chameleons from a guy who hand picked them, he housed them together (sad I know) and their diet was mainly crickets from what I gathered. Little to no supplementation was used and doubtful gutloads occurred. Both seemed underfed.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - 16x16x30 reptibreeze

◦ Lighting - Zoomed 5.0 compact uvb and daylight heat bulb. Lights are timed for 8 to 8. ***arcadia light and fixture are being shipped as we speak***

◦ Temperature - low 80s is the hottest spot and mid 70s is the lowest. My room doesn’t go below low 60s at night. Have multiple probe themometers that i use.

◦ Humidity - ordered a hydrometer, but right now I’m relying on heavily misting cage and using a dripper all day and evening.

◦ Plants - pothos and one bamboo plant.

◦ Placement - in my room away from drafts or anything.

◦ Location - elkhart, Indiana


Current Problem - My current problem is my female doesn’t look in the best shape. Can often see ribs, and it almost appears as she has an underbite. I tried getting her to eat Dubia but if she eats any it’s very sparingly, today I broke and offered crickets and she ate 6 within a minute. She “puffs up” and can get this bloated look but I don’t think she’s carrying any eggs. I have a lay bin just in case. I’m not ruling out a parasite but find it hard to believe because the male that was previously housed with her is now thriving since I’ve offered Dubia and other feeders along with supplements and gutloads. Just looking for opinions and advice outside of “go to the vet” that’s already happening next week lol.

Crickets as feeders are perfectly acceptable as long as they’re properly gutloaded. Feed as many as she’ll eat. Get a minimum of 18” by 18” by 36” tall cage, but preferably 2’ by 2’ by 4’ tall, preferably screen. I can’t remember, but bamboo might not be cham safe, maybe someone else can chime in. What size is your lay bin? Make the mistings at least 2 minutes long, but preferably 5, when you set up the MistKing

 

[ERKleRose]

UPDATED, and still looking for some answers

Could you get an aerial shot from straight up above her?

 

[zmoore91]

I figured the 2 or 5 minutes could be substituted with more abundant smaller misting sessions but doesn’t matter. I got the one 2’x2’x4’ cage so it is on my list to do.

 

[zmoore91]

Here’s some more pictures

 

[ERKleRose]

Here’s some more pictures

Not sure, just wait for the vet or someone else to chime in, sorry I can’t help more

 

[zmoore91]

I woke her up so she’s ticked off but you can actually see her mouth here. I don’t see anything crazy, I just think I need to gutload the crap out of crickets and let her eat as much as she likes until she starts getting some good weight on her then maybe try different strategies for food

 

[ERKleRose]

There’s some discoloration on her teeth, it could be normal or possibly be mouth rot, has she had any other symptoms of mouth rot?

 

[Chameleon Mike]

Hard to say. She looks like a healthy weight. Good looking girl. I think she may have a slight infection at her mouth from a possible cricket bite. I'd say get her to the vet before it gets bad. Hopefully it'll be an easy fix.

 

[zmoore91]

Hard to say. She looks like a healthy weight. Good looking girl. I think she may have a slight infection at her mouth from a possible cricket bite. I'd say get her to the vet before it gets bad. Hopefully it'll be an easy fix.

Well ya made me feel a little better, most times I can see her ribs and she’s so much smaller that it concerns me. But yeah, she’ll be at the vet next week, unless I see something that makes me go sooner

 

[Chameleon Mike]

Crickets as feeders are perfectly acceptable as long as they’re properly gutloaded. Feed as many as she’ll eat. Get a minimum of 18” by 18” by 36” tall cage

Good advice, I agree. I would increase the UVB to 10.0. A linear fixture is far better then the dome fixture.

Gutload, lighting, proper dusting and mistings are all equally important.

 

[zmoore91]

Good advice, I agree. I would increase the UVB to 10.0. A linear fixture is far better then the dome fixture.

Gutload, lighting, proper dusting and mistings are all equally important.

I have 6.0 Arcadia’s on the way. I feel like 10.0 May be a little overkill?

 

[Chameleon Mike]

If you get an 18x18x36 the 10.0 will be fine. If the chameleon was younger, hatchling size, you want to stay with the 5.0.

 

[zmoore91]

If you get an 18x18x36 the 10.0 will be fine. If the chameleon was younger, hatchling size, you want to stay with the 5.0.

So the 6.0s I just bought aren’t adequate

 

[Syreptyon]

I think 10.0 in a 36" tall cage for a panther chameleon would be way too much, unless you have significant plant cover to block out the UVB. I would say the arcadia 6 is perfect

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Discoloration in the mouth is not a sure sign of an issue, however I do ogre that something is going on with her lower jaw.

I think the leaves on some types of bamboo can be toxic but since she is a panther I don’t think you have much to worry about. The drawback to bamboo is how smooth it is, chams tend to slip on it but this can be easily resolved by taking some 40 grit sand paper to it and roughing it up.

I noticed you mentioned “cage” in your original post and not “cages.” Do they have separate vivs?

 

[zmoore91]

I think 10.0 in a 36" tall cage for a panther chameleon would be way too much, unless you have significant plant cover to block out the UVB. I would say the arcadia 6 is perfect

I thought the same. I got a 22” arcadia 6% bulb for both cages