No Dusting? All Gutload?

[JackRipper]

@Tihshho said...."Fish Flake Food (dry - I get whatever is on sale and mix the flake fish food with the Dubia rations)...be careful of possible fat souble vitamins in fish food that might cause problems in chameleons.
@Tihshho ...You commented about calcium being dangerous too...in what way?

@JackRipper said re smaller chameleon species...."They don't have the same calcium requirements as larger crown or canopy sprcies"...I'd be interested in knowing why this would be true...same for hatchlings...do they just rely on what they were born with?

@Kaizen said that Petr Necas made comments recently about Hawaiian Jacksons chameleons ...It was posted here...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/night-temp-important.53904/#post-1532102

@Tihshho said..."In order for them to be able to reproduce they have to be getting somewhat of a healthy diet"...that's what I've always thought.

Great question, in every article or care sheet guidelines I've read it has been recommended to supplement calcium weekly or twice weekly and sometimes even every other week for pygmy specie rather than every feeding as for most larger species. My thought is the smaller the species the less calcium required and in the wild I believe they get the trace amount of calcium needed from fruit flies/Gnats--Researchers at the University of California studied fruit flies behaviour and discovered the flies could taste toxic levels of calcium and didn't like it. Then they used genetics to show that the calcium taste sense is hardwired into the fruit flies brain showing that they must be exposed to toxic levels of calcium which is alot and possibly enough to support the tiny skeletal structure of a pygmy - fruit flies may not be able to support the calcium requirements of a bird eating canopy cham but for a pygmy it may be just enough calcium as a staple food in the diet.

 

[kinyonga]

Great question, in every article or care sheet guidelines I've read it has been recommended to supplement calcium weekly or twice weekly and sometimes even every other week for pygmy specie rather than every feeding as for most larger species. My thought is the smaller the species the less calcium required and in the wild I believe they get the trace amount of calcium needed from fruit flies/Gnats--Researchers at the University of California studied fruit flies behaviour and discovered the flies could taste toxic levels of calcium and didn't like it. Then they used genetics to show that the calcium taste sense is hardwired into the fruit flies brain showing that they must be exposed to toxic levels of calcium which is alot and possibly enough to support the tiny skeletal structure of a pygmy - fruit flies may not be able to support the calcium requirements of a bird eating canopy cham but for a pygmy it may be just enough calcium as a staple food in the diet.

I definitely need to add this to my never ending list of things to study.

 

[Tihshho]

Veiled's seem to be OK with the dusting process, in the case of Triceros they are a little more touchy on it. That's more so my focus as those are the only species I currently have.

I just find it odd that species such as the Crested Gecko were studied long enough to find out their diet was able to be almost 100% supplemented with a powdered diet that could be mixed with water and that provided all nutritional needs. I know that's impossible for a Cham, but I'd like to know more about what it is we don't know so we are able to provide the best nutrients possible and preferably through a readily available vessel such as dubia's or other feeders.

 

[JackRipper]

I love bearded pygmys I had a breeding colony awhile back they actually do better in group's. When housed solo they seem to stress out. I only litely dusted twice a month.

 

[Tihshho]

I love bearded pygmys I had a breeding colony awhile back they actually do better in group's. When housed solo they seem to stress out. I only litely dusted twice a month.

These guys are on my list to find. Not sure of any breeders currently working with them, but I'd love to get a colony of them going and some seperate enclosures to pull the males every so often so the females are not over bred.

 

[JackRipper]

Veiled's seem to be OK with the dusting process, in the case of Triceros they are a little more touchy on it. That's more so my focus as those are the only species I currently have.

I just find it odd that species such as the Crested Gecko were studied long enough to find out their diet was able to be almost 100% supplemented with a powdered diet that could be mixed with water and that provided all nutritional needs. I know that's impossible for a Cham, but I'd like to know more about what it is we don't know so we are able to provide the best nutrients possible and preferably through a readily available vessel such as dubia's or other feeders.

I just adopted a crested gecko yesterday and was told only to feed her rapashi mix. I had giant day geckos in the past we fed jars of gerber baby food. Banana worked the best but never calcium supplements due to all the fruit meeting the requirements.

 

[kinyonga]

@Tihshho I've kept dwarf jacksons, quads, many other species with the same exact dusting/gutloading schedule I've used for the veileds. I've also kept many other lizard species with the same dusting schedule. I've bred, hatched, raised water dragons, several species of gecko, chameleons, cone heads (laemanctus) and even tortoises, etc. to me I've never bothered trying to go without dusting because it has worked and I didn't want to risk it. That doesn't mean at I wouldn't like to see it happen or tried....it's just what I'm doing.

 

[Jaguargecko]

I dust every cricket feeding rephashy calcium plus LoD. I use this on both my nocturnal geckos and my pygmies. The reason is because pygmies are undergrowth/forest floor dwelling species and I use uvb. Since I have misters going about an hour after morning feeding and I do not cup feed my pygmies I figure that some if not most of the supplement will come off as I often observe crickets scurrying through the litter and doing things that may remove much of the light dusting given. When I feed worms, flies, beetles and roaches they are not dusted. I often feed pairing something with crickets to give choice it always amazes me how much they like crickets and flies.