Devokid
Established Member
Yes. They still tend to not have enough calcium.
No more Jacksons for me
- Thread starter brownie64
- Start date
Yes. They still tend to not have enough calcium.
SilverWolf
Member
then calcium is really the only thing needed, for supplementing?
Devokid
Established Member
Depends on the species and the quality of the gut load, but yes.
SilverWolf
Member
Jackson chameleon, gut load consists of apples, carrots, green peppers, butternut squash and collard greens.
How often should the crickets be dusted with calcium then?
Not all supplements are made from "natural" ingredients....
Repti_cal...source of calcium...calcium carbonate....
http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/repti_cal
Minerall...source of calcium...calcium carbonate...
http://chameleonworldmuji.co.uk/sticky-tongue-farms/
Feeding/gutloading the insects should provide all the vitamins needed but in the wild the chameleon eats different insects than we can provide in captivity so in the hope that we provide everything the chameleon needs we dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A and when necessary may add a source of prEformed vitamin A.
It doesn't matter if the chameleon is indoors or outdoors, it still needs calcium. What differs from inside to outside is the need for extra D3. Being outdoors allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 from its exposure to the UVB of the sun. Indoors that chameleon is exposed to UVB from the UVB light on its cage which may or may not be enough for it to use all the calcium needed for the bones and other systems in the chameleon...so we dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure that it has some and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB light.
Repti_cal...source of calcium...calcium carbonate....
http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/repti_cal
Minerall...source of calcium...calcium carbonate...
http://chameleonworldmuji.co.uk/sticky-tongue-farms/
Feeding/gutloading the insects should provide all the vitamins needed but in the wild the chameleon eats different insects than we can provide in captivity so in the hope that we provide everything the chameleon needs we dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A and when necessary may add a source of prEformed vitamin A.
It doesn't matter if the chameleon is indoors or outdoors, it still needs calcium. What differs from inside to outside is the need for extra D3. Being outdoors allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 from its exposure to the UVB of the sun. Indoors that chameleon is exposed to UVB from the UVB light on its cage which may or may not be enough for it to use all the calcium needed for the bones and other systems in the chameleon...so we dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure that it has some and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB light.
Bush baby
Avid Member
I dust mine every other day, but ever day is also fine; you have to think of it as simply correcting the calcium to phosphorus ratio, as opposed to dosing your cham up with the calcium supplement.
SilverWolf
Member
How many jackson chameleons have you kept before, and how long did you keep them? Just out of curiosity.
brownie64
Avid Member
I use the 10.0 UVB because the screen that it has to go through is a fine mesh, and I lose over half the effective UVB. My UVI meter measures around 6-8 at 11".
Here's a Site you might find interesting...
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/skintests.htm
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/skintests.htm
Bush baby
Avid Member
My very first cham back in 1998 was a Jacksons. Kept him for 5 years. The next 2 Chams after that were Veileds. Then, i returned to Jacksons. Kept that one for almost 6 years. Then, as you know, i lost two recently (one escaped and the other taken by a bird) and i now presently have a new one.
So, on average, i get them to last about 5 -6 years.
Lathis
Chameleon Enthusiast
That is about the same gut load I use - I will change what leafy greens I use each time and sometimes add in unsalted nuts. I mix it up between frozen cubes of veggie mush and fresh veggies. I typically feed every other day, so usually, I will dust the crickets with calcium powder (no D3, no phosphorus - I use a Repashy product). Once a month, I will use a multivitamin with PREformed vitamin A and D3. There are a lot of discussions here about PRE vs PRO formed vitamin A with members that are extremely knowledgeable and whom I respect on both sides. I switched my multivitamin to PREformed (for several reasons, not just this one) after my Jax was having tongue issues and it seemed to resolve the problem.
This supplementing schedule has been working well for me. I have found that the quality of the gut load is the most important part. The better quality (and fresher) my gut load, the brighter and healthier my Jax seems to be. Plus, it makes the crickets plumper and feistier
I also believe that variety of feeders plays a really big part in nutritional balance - especially wild insects which have access to a huge variety of food sources. You have to be careful and smart about where you collect and what you catch, but I make wild insects a small but regular part of my feeder rotation.
In full disclosure - everything I know on the topic I have learned here on the forum from great keepers like Kinyonga, Sandrachameleon, and tons of others. Do tons of reading here - educating yourself and asking questions improves our community as a whole
Bush baby
Avid Member
To add to the apples, carrots, green peppers, butternut squash and collard greens gut load a few on here seem to be using; i've always felt the need for some sort of grain, along with the veggies, to supply a lot of the b vitamins, along with some good quality protein - in which i add in spirulina. I know veggies have some levels of protein, b-vitamins, etc in them, but the dry portion of a gut load makes for a more well balanced diet.
Psychobunny
Avid Member
When I wiped out nearly a whole colony of cricks due to pesticides in the Romain I gave them, it was a wake-up call.
I think there are a lot of invironmental factors to consider. Things we hardly ever think about. Chemical additives in foods, air quality, water quality, etc. etc.
Chams are sensitive, and I think these factors in our modern invironment plays some roll in their health.
I am now very careful what I buy for gut loading, making sure it's certified organic by USDA.
In the wild, chams are not exposed to all these contaminants and have no immunity to them.
As fare as the multivitamin thing, I really don't see a need if the cham has enough outside sun time, and a proper diet. But I do see the need for calcium.
I had similar bad luck with panthers, 3 died, 2 of them had inherited problems and was on medication, the other simply dropped dead overnight and had no visible illness.
As hard as we try to mimic their natural conditions, I think there are things we can never match, unless we move to Madagascar, or Africa
I think there are a lot of invironmental factors to consider. Things we hardly ever think about. Chemical additives in foods, air quality, water quality, etc. etc.
Chams are sensitive, and I think these factors in our modern invironment plays some roll in their health.
I am now very careful what I buy for gut loading, making sure it's certified organic by USDA.
In the wild, chams are not exposed to all these contaminants and have no immunity to them.
As fare as the multivitamin thing, I really don't see a need if the cham has enough outside sun time, and a proper diet. But I do see the need for calcium.
I had similar bad luck with panthers, 3 died, 2 of them had inherited problems and was on medication, the other simply dropped dead overnight and had no visible illness.
As hard as we try to mimic their natural conditions, I think there are things we can never match, unless we move to Madagascar, or Africa
Bush baby
Avid Member
Yeah, i went to bulk.com and purchased wheat germ, spirulina, bee pollen and brewers yeast. I mix them together in a blender (wheat germ making up the about 50-60% of the it), add a table spoon of calcium power and less than a tea spoon of multi-vitamin power, and that's my dry gut load. It looks green, because of the spirulina but the crickets love it.
