Nosy Faly locale is in trouble:(

[Texas Ranger]

Well seeing as this is one of the guys who braught this locale public and was I think the first to import falys out of Madagascar I trust in what he has to say and show... And i am sure he has seen more falys over the past few decades then all of us breeders put together...so I am pritty sure he knows what he is talking about....why else would he say it....

Also I have heard of this a few years ago from 2 of the most well known biggest breeders in the USA but they had no pic proof .. now we are getting the picture proof of the offspring being made in the wild....

 

[clarkrw3]

Don't want to "red rain" on anyone's parade but it looks like a typical variation found in any locale. Admittingly the first one is less attractive than the other 2 but in my opinion still meets the requirements of a Faly. He needs someone to look at that mouth unless he just ate something.

I might be inclined to agree with you if this was just anyone. This guy has seen more Nosy Faly than all of us put together and is on the ground seeing these other locals on the island. He knows for a fact they are being brought in and probably knows who is doing it. So if he states he can now pick out the crosses I am pretty inclined to believe him.
This does bring up the topic of what is "the local" is it where it was harvested from? is it head shape? is it coloration? is it all of these things put together?

The problem goes back to the fact that people want to say what they have is Faly so bad they are willing to overlook what the animal really looks like just to say it is a Faly. This Faly debate will probably rage on forever but I think it is really important for those breeding faly (not calling anyone out here!!!) to breed only the animals that are a good representation of what this local is. I know there are those that agree with this type of "ethics" in breeding and those that don't but I would guess that is why more people haven't posted on this thread yet.

was typing at the same time as lee

 

[Olimpia]

It's interesting, I have seen my share of Falys that look just like that first one, some of them wild-caught. You have to wonder how many people have these and just think they have a low-white, low-red Faly - which to me, seems totally and completely plausible. They aren't ugly, just not as flashy... But then again, I know peanuts about this locale personally, so I'm not qualified to challenge anyone's opinion. I just think it's interesting.

The conservation biologist in me does think it's a crying shame that any locale should vanish due to human interaction. If they would have drifted together and merged over time naturally, as things due, then oh well. But if it's our fault, that's a shame, it really is.

 

[Chuck G]

I am not saying this doesn't happen but unless the Faly mystery man witnessed the whole process,which he didn't, there is no way of knowing for sure. He is speculating this is a cross. I don't care how many he has seen.
I wouldn't breed the first one because it doesn't have enough of the characteristics I like. It doesn't mean it's not pure. I wouldn't breed a puny Jackson's chameleon either. I only breed the healthiest and most vibrant chameleons.

 

[Texas Ranger]

It's interesting, I have seen my share of Falys that look just like that first one, some of them wild-caught. You have to wonder how many people have these and just think they have a low-white, low-red Faly - which to me, seems totally and completely plausible. They aren't ugly, just not as flashy... But then again, I know peanuts about this locale personally, so I'm not qualified to challenge anyone's opinion. I just think it's interesting.

The conservation biologist in me does think it's a crying shame that any locale should vanish due to human interaction. If they would have drifted together and merged over time naturally, as things due, then oh well. But if it's our fault, that's a shame, it really is.

I know its a shame people can't leave things be...

 

[camimom]

I dont have anything to add to the conversation because I dont know really anything about the locale that would help in this conversation.

Just want to say I agree with Olimpia that people shoudl leave well enough alone. Dont bring other locales over if they dont belong there.

But this does make me wonder just what this inability to get wc pure imports now is going to do to the cb population prices of falys.

 

[Texas Ranger]

True but who is to say you won't get that first boys sister from the wild and then you have a big head ache .... It's just going to be a huge head ache because people can't leave nature alone. And we could all loose the faly locale all together ....

It's interesting, I have seen my share of Falys that look just like that first one, some of them wild-caught. You have to wonder how many people have these and just think they have a low-white, low-red Faly - which to me, seems totally and completely plausible. They aren't ugly, just not as flashy... But then again, I know peanuts about this locale personally, so I'm not qualified to challenge anyone's opinion. I just think it's interesting.

The conservation biologist in me does think it's a crying shame that any locale should vanish due to human interaction. If they would have drifted together and merged over time naturally, as things due, then oh well. But if it's our fault, that's a shame, it really is.

I am not saying this doesn't happen but unless the Faly mystery man witnessed the whole process,which he didn't, there is no way of knowing for sure. He is speculating this is a cross. I don't care how many he has seen.
I wouldn't breed the first one because it doesn't have enough of the characteristics I like. It doesn't mean it's not pure. I wouldn't breed a puny Jackson's chameleon either. I only breed the healthiest and most vibrant chameleons.

 

[Kent67]

Take a look at some of the first Faly's that came out of Madagascar. What's it been, 4 or 5 years now? The supposed WC hybrid doesn't look too different from Screameleon's Jake (see 3rd pic down of him) that came with that first group of Faly's to the US as well as a number of males that came in several years ago. I wouldn't deny that what O.P. is saying isn't happening, just that that male looks consistent with many of the other wild caught males that we've seen for quite a while, as Chuck said.

 

[clarkrw3]

I hear what your saying Kent. When You look at Jake he doesn't even have the Faly rostral. His rostral just screams Nosy Be. Like this importer is saying just because it's from the island doesn't make it pure...I am sure this has been a problem for a little while now. Also who is to say Jake was harvested from Nosy Faly. Look at Wylde he looks more similar to that first picture the importer posted just with more rain and yellower face which along with the white I believe to be the key.

 

[Kent67]

I believe the "exporter" is also the original source of Jake and the rest of that first shipment of Faly's.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I see some falys on there that have almost the same look. But they have the yellow and red rain and look faly and they are not that mad or at rest. That fist pic boy is pissed and fired up and has no red rain only a few dots of red and the off coloring in that one is different then any of the falys on screameleons wall.

 

[clarkrw3]

I believe the "exporter" is also the original source of Jake and the rest of that first shipment of Faly's.

It's funny..in a sick sort of way...but the fact that this guy is now coming out and saying there are crosses on the island must mean he has learned from his time there that not all is as it should be

Also when you look at some of those first pictures of Jake you can tell he was very young when they got him.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Im not saying that this is not true. But $$$ could be at play here also. Lets face it if this exporter can say this X male is a pure faly and these XY males are crosses from the island and I can ID them because Ive seen 1000's of falys. Couldnt he in turn charge exorbitant rates for "his pure" wc males. Money has made ppl due far worse things when it comes to the reptile trade.

And Lee Im not saying this isnt true because I heard this rumor last yr myself. Just playing the devils advocate here.

 

[clarkrw3]

You are right he could be trying to drive up prices but from his mouth he is already sold out of all of his yearly quota for pardalis for years to come. So unless he is planning on sticking it to the people that have already put in for the next few years I doubt that is the driving factor there. He is not looking for business. But does truly love this locale.

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Im not saying that this is not true. But $$$ could be at play here also. Lets face it if this exporter can say this X male is a pure faly and these XY males are crosses from the island and I can ID them because Ive seen 1000's of falys. Couldnt he in turn charge exorbitant rates for "his pure" wc males. Money has made ppl due far worse things when it comes to the reptile trade.

And Lee Im not saying this isnt true because I heard this rumor last yr myself. Just playing the devils advocate here.

haha this crossed my mind on my way home from work today, Since he can "differentiate" between crosses, and pures. He could just be trying to skyrocket prices. But who knows

 

[Cainschams]

Thank you for doing this I have been trying but smartphones are not that smart yet lol... You can really see the difference can't you...

Are these all WC and photographed fromt he island or what? I dont see how he could say one is pure and the other is not, on the island or from an import. We all see crosses that look just like the typical locale type and are hard to tell if you can tell at all. Who is to say this locale isnt the result of someone placing Ambanjas and Nosy Bes on the island to begin with?

IMO it sounds like someone is just trying to fetch an even higher price for the "typical" red, white and blue ones.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Im not saying that this is not true. But $$$ could be at play here also. Lets face it if this exporter can say this X male is a pure faly and these XY males are crosses from the island and I can ID them because Ive seen 1000's of falys. Couldnt he in turn charge exorbitant rates for "his pure" wc males. Money has made ppl due far worse things when it comes to the reptile trade.

And Lee Im not saying this isnt true because I heard this rumor last yr myself. Just playing the devils advocate here.

True but at the same time he has not imported to the USA in a few years and prob. Will not ever again due too to many problems with paperwork and all that BS. He just dosent import here so why would he post that with no gain

 

[clarkrw3]

Are these all WC and photographed fromt he island or what? I dont see how he could say one is pure and the other is not, on the island or from an import. We all see crosses that look just like the typical locale type and are hard to tell if you can tell at all. Who is to say this locale isnt the result of someone placing Ambanjas and Nosy Bes on the island to begin with?

IMO it sounds like someone is just trying to fetch an even higher price for the "typical" red, white and blue ones.

I will tell you that I sent him a number of pictures and he was happy to tell me that he was 100% sure it was a pure Faly, and to please be careful in what female I breed him to. He had NO incentive or play in what I sent him at all. Just a care for the locale.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Are these all WC and photographed fromt he island or what? I dont see how he could say one is pure and the other is not, on the island or from an import. We all see crosses that look just like the typical locale type and are hard to tell if you can tell at all. Who is to say this locale isnt the result of someone placing Ambanjas and Nosy Bes on the island to begin with?

IMO it sounds like someone is just trying to fetch an even higher price for the "typical" red, white and blue ones.

Those are pics as he is getting them on the island of Madagascar.. and I don't know if he is plaining anything all I know is I trust him and his love for all plants animals all on the island were he lives and see no reason for him trying to screw people.IMO.

 

[Cainschams]

I will tell you that I sent him a number of pictures and he was happy to tell me that he was 100% sure it was a pure Faly, and to please be careful in what female I breed him to. He had NO incentive or play in what I sent him at all. Just a care for the locale.

Im definitely not saying anyone here in this thread is trying to do it to fetch higher prices. Withouth knowing who it is one can only speculate what type of person they are.

Those are pics as he is getting them on the island of Madagascar.. and I don't know if he is plaining anything all I know is I trust him and his love for all plants animals all on the island were he lives and see no reason for him trying to screw people.IMO.

I just wonder how he can say this one is pure and the other is not. Again, we all see crosses that could be passed off as pures. Also, again, without knowing who the person is those of us can only speculate. Even if there was a name to the thread Im sure I have never delt with them and would still be cautious.

This Faly crap just keeps getting better and better