Not sure - eyes

[CamoTheCham12]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled male, about 5-6 months, have had him for 2 and a half months
• Handling - came out the cage once and started always trying to come out when we would open it so we were having to put him back in almost daily
• Feeding - Crickets, dubia, mealworms (sometimes), hornworms (every now and then). calcium dusted every feeding without d3. reptivite with d3 once every 2 weeks. Gut loading - lettuce, carrots, cricket quencher, collard greens. He was eating a lot daily and now maybe once or twice a day but still not as many bugs.
• Supplements - repti calcium without d3 every feeding. Using reptivite every paycheck (once every two weeks)
• Watering - mist in the morning for a minute, then 30 seconds 3 hours later, mist at night for a minute and fogger for 30 minutes. Dripper rarely just to check if he is thirsty
• Fecal Description - white urate and big poop.

Cage Info:

• 2x2x4 - screen. Acrylic plastic on left and back side to hold humidity
• Lighting - heat bulb 60 watt, arcadia jungle 6% pro t5 uvb kit about 5-7 inches off basking branch top to bottom
• Temperature - 79-81 basking (just upped to 75 watt bulb yesterday), ambient daytime around 72-75, night time 65-67
• Humidity - around 50-55 during day, 75-85 at night
• Plants - Pothos throughout the cage, fern and draecena on bottom in bio substrate.
• Placement - Corner table, height that she basks at is above everything, about 7-8 ft high. No traffic no vents no fans
• Location - Kentucky

Current Problem -

Noticed right eye starting to stay closed more then usual on Saturday (4 days ago) and by Sunday or Monday it was staying closed. He would open it every now and then.
Sunday night I heard him wheeze, monday morning i heard him cough and act like breathing issues were going on. got scheduled for emergency visit and had him in the vet an hour later. no signs of anything in mouth or tract being blocked, no mucus or anything. Started him on Ceftazidime 1g per vial once every 72 hours for respiratory issues . this was two days ago- and this morning his other eye was closed on and off but mostly closed. next dose is tomorrow but not sure why if the eyes were due to respiratory issues then why the other one would start to close 2 days after the first dose.

should i request vitamin A injection from vet? ideas?

Advice for what would be "changed" is accepted but looking for the immediate solution or ideas please I REALLY want to get him fixed up asap.

 

[Beman]

Hey there give me a bit to go through everything. Can you post some pics of the cham for me as well? No vitamin shots. He gets vitamin A in his reptivite. Vitamin A can be overdosed since it is stored in the tissues of their body.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Thank you!

This picture was april 1st as I am currently at work. He still looks the same maybe lost a few grams, was 81grams on monday morning. colors still look the same.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Oh and he stopped eating dubias, not really taking crickets, yesterday had to feed him mealworms twice just to get some food and calcium in him. ordered silkworms from FramsChams so they should be here today or tomorrow.

 

[Beman]

See my feedback in red bold.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled male, about 5-6 months, have had him for 2 and a half months
• Handling - came out the cage once and started always trying to come out when we would open it so we were having to put him back in almost daily. This could be due to the lack of cover for the middle of the cage. I would pull out the plants on the very bottom and add a centerpiece plant so that it is fully through the middle of the cage.
• Feeding - Crickets, dubia, mealworms (sometimes), hornworms (every now and then). calcium dusted every feeding without d3. reptivite with d3 once every 2 weeks. Gut loading - lettuce, carrots, cricket quencher, collard greens. He was eating a lot daily and now maybe once or twice a day but still not as many bugs. How many insects was he eating daily? How many is he eating now?
• Supplements - repti calcium without d3 every feeding. Using reptivite every paycheck (once every two weeks) this is correct and your doing the right schedule.
• Watering - mist in the morning for a minute, then 30 seconds 3 hours later, mist at night for a minute and fogger for 30 minutes. Dripper rarely just to check if he is thirsty
• Fecal Description - white urate and big poop. Have you gotten a fecal test run to ensure he does not have parasites? This would be a good idea. You just put the fecal portion only of a fresh fecal into a plastic baggy and have the vet send it to be tested.

Cage Info:

• 2x2x4 - screen. Acrylic plastic on left and back side to hold humidity. Good.
• Lighting - heat bulb 60 watt, arcadia jungle 6% pro t5 uvb kit about 5-7 inches off basking branch top to bottom... So clarify the UVB distance for me. With a T5HO and a 6% bulb you want to measure from the highest branch below the fixture to the screen above. This distance should be 8-9inches with the fixture sitting right on the screen top. This puts them in the correct UVI level.
• Temperature - 79-81 basking (just upped to 75 watt bulb yesterday), ambient daytime around 72-75, night time 65-67.. How are you measuring your temps at basking?
• Humidity - around 50-55 during day, 75-85 at night
• Plants - Pothos throughout the cage, fern and draecena on bottom in bio substrate. I would pull the fern out. This one is not considered veiled tested. When you say bio active is there only soil? Or did you do a fully bio active layer with drainage layer soil and your clean up crew insects?
• Placement - Corner table, height that she basks at is above everything, about 7-8 ft high. No traffic no vents no fans
• Location - Kentucky

Current Problem -

Noticed right eye starting to stay closed more then usual on Saturday (4 days ago) and by Sunday or Monday it was staying closed. He would open it every now and then.
Sunday night I heard him wheeze, monday morning i heard him cough and act like breathing issues were going on. got scheduled for emergency visit and had him in the vet an hour later. no signs of anything in mouth or tract being blocked, no mucus or anything. Started him on Ceftazidime 1g per vial once every 72 hours for respiratory issues . this was two days ago- and this morning his other eye was closed on and off but mostly closed. next dose is tomorrow but not sure why if the eyes were due to respiratory issues then why the other one would start to close 2 days after the first dose. They can feel worse before they feel better. Eye closing can be linked to multiple things when due to illness they can actually feel worse before the meds really start turning it around. So both eyes closing can be from how stressed his body is from being sick.

should i request vitamin A injection from vet? ideas? Nope don't do this he already gets vitamin A in his Reptivite. This is a fat soluble vitamin which means it stores in the body and does not flush from the system with water. I have seen chams go downhill when a vet gives vitamin A shots and since he has already been getting what he needs this would not be something that I would personally do.

Advice for what would be "changed" is accepted but looking for the immediate solution or ideas please I REALLY want to get him fixed up asap.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

- I removed the bottom plants on Monday as I noticed water building up under them
- He was eating at least 20 daily and growing quickly, now id be lucky to get him 10. I also gave him a couple hornworms over the weekend to keep fat and water in him.
- Have not done fecal test
- Will avoid vitamin A shots then, I did put a couple of Flukers Liquid Vitamin Reptile Supplement on a hornworm either sunday or monday, just want to keep all facts out there

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Also if I was to ever send in a fecal test it would be hard to find any poop without bugs all in it due to the millions of springtail cleanup crew.

 

[Beman]

Ok so talk to me about how you set up your bio active layer... Reason I am asking is if this is not done correctly you can get mold growth, this is not something you want in the air. If it is staying soppy wet you then can end up with very stagnant air. These can lead to an RI.

10 a day is actually quite good.

Are you certain of his age? Do you have a pic of when you first got him 2 months ago? He looks older than a 5-6 month old boy.

Yes, it is much harder to find fecal in a bio active set up. Bare bottom with potted plants can be a lot easier when you are newer to the hobby and still learning.

Do not give the liquid flukers vitamin. This has vitamin A and D3 in much more extreme levels than we use in our powdered supplements.

• Vitamins / kg. . . (2.2 pounds)
• Vitamin A. . . 913,240 IU/LB
• Vitamin D3. . . 73,060 IU/LB
• Vitamin B1. . . 548 mg
• Vitamin B2. . . 785 mg
• Vitamin B6. . . 182 mg
• Vitamin C. . . 9130 mg
• Nicotinamide. . . 3652 mg

Verses reptivite with D3

Vitamin A 100,000 IU per lb
Vitamin D 10,000 IU per lb

As you can see when you look at the comparison of both the fluckers liquid vitamin literally has like 9x the vitamin A and 7x the D3... This is really not meant to use for chameleons and is why we do not use it in the hobby. When you are already supplementing with the correct things you do not want to add more of it. This is one of those more is not better situations.

Did he start closing the eye before or after you gave him this?

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Bioactive - I have had layer of substratum and then mesh over that and reptisoil on top, putting leaf litter when needed. isopods and springtails with a few plants in there. drilled holes throughout the bottom of bin just in case water needed to be let out or drained. only thing I have changed in the past couple of weeks is adding those bottom plants (which i already removed). saw sitting water under them AND dead crickets which I already knew was a cause for concern. I also took a mini fan home so I could point it at bottom of cage to get more air turnover. Have not turned it on yet.

I figured the flukers was a strong concentrate but was not sure which means I shouldn't have used it.

Right eye was closing before that and left eye closed 2 days after using it.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

so not vitamin a.

slowly starting to close one eye over a few days and then other eye days later is still the mystery

 

[Beman]

Bioactive - I have had layer of substratum and then mesh over that and reptisoil on top, putting leaf litter when needed. isopods and springtails with a few plants in there. drilled holes throughout the bottom of bin just in case water needed to be let out or drained. only thing I have changed in the past couple of weeks is adding those bottom plants (which i already removed). saw sitting water under them AND dead crickets which I already knew was a cause for concern. I also took a mini fan home so I could point it at bottom of cage to get more air turnover. Have not turned it on yet.

I figured the flukers was a strong concentrate but was not sure which means I shouldn't have used it.

Right eye was closing before that and left eye closed 2 days after using it.

Ok so are you using the clay balls in the very bottom? What is your substratum layer?

Per the image of his size and coloration when you got him. He looks to be roughly 5-6 months there which would make him roughly 7-8 months now.

Ok so then the issue was pre additional liquid vitamin. So something prior causing the decline.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

yes I have a few inches of the balls as base layer before mesh.

Yes but I have dealt with chams before and I know decline can be quick so I want to do anything possible.

also what do you think about the small fan idea for circulation?

 

[Beman]

yes I have a few inches of the balls as base layer before mesh.

Yes but I have dealt with chams before and I know decline can be quick so I want to do anything possible.

also what do you think about the small fan idea for circulation?

So my concern is that the bio active layer is what started the respiratory issues. These can cause issues when they are not set up to drain properly. They hold so much excess moisture that it then creates a stagnant environment.

If it were me I would pull the entire layer out and go bare bottom adding a larger potted plant that will fill out the middle of the cage. This will also allow for you to find fecal easier. Air quality will be better as well.

Adding a small fan a few feet away pointed at the bottom of the cage only can be helpful but on low and not blasting air. The issue with adding these like this is that you end up changing your ambient temps and humidity. But again I feel pulling the bioactive layer would be a better option rather than trying to blow air on it to dry it out. You do not know what is growing in it that could potentially be impacting the cham.

 

[Gloriawood]

Maybe switch from reptivite to repashy. My guy was having an eye issue. Turned out his supplements were off cause the reptivite would not stick well enough to his bugs so he wasn’t getting enough. Just an idea.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Maybe switch from reptivite to repashy. My guy was having an eye issue. Turned out his supplements were off cause the reptivite would not stick well enough to his bugs so he wasn’t getting enough. Just an idea.

Yea I was looking at your post from before and wondered if the issue ever fixed. I have repashy bug burger but I will get power for bugs.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

So my concern is that the bio active layer is what started the respiratory issues. These can cause issues when they are not set up to drain properly. They hold so much excess moisture that it then creates a stagnant environment.

If it were me I would pull the entire layer out and go bare bottom adding a larger potted plant that will fill out the middle of the cage. This will also allow for you to find fecal easier. Air quality will be better as well.

Adding a small fan a few feet away pointed at the bottom of the cage only can be helpful but on low and not blasting air. The issue with adding these like this is that you end up changing your ambient temps and humidity. But again I feel pulling the bioactive layer would be a better option rather than trying to blow air on it to dry it out. You do not know what is growing in it that could potentially be impacting the cham.

ok I will get started on that then. anything else come to mind?

 

[Beman]

ok I will get started on that then. anything else come to mind?

Clean the floor with water after you pull the layers out... No cleaning solutions. No use of incense, candles, floor cleaner, etc... Anything that has a strong odor can effect their sensitive lungs.

And double check your distances for your UVB. Too close can put them into over exposure levels.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

so i changed my uv light yesterday also bought a new bulb but it was 12% so i raised it up 13 inches. I am going to put 6% back on during my lunch. going to go with cage cleaning solution from petsmart

 

[CamoTheCham12]

well i see you said no cleaning solutions. none of those then, will go with water

 

[Beman]

so i changed my uv light yesterday also bought a new bulb but it was 12% so i raised it up 13 inches. I am going to put 6% back on during my lunch. going to go with cage cleaning solution from petsmart

Ok here are the guide lines with these bulbs and fixtures......

With a 12% you want it a total of about 11-12 inches away from your branch. So if your branch is sitting 5 inches down from the screen then the fixture has to be raised 6-7 inches off the top of the cage. If the branch is 8 inches down from the screen you have to raise the fixture 3-4 inches off the top.

With a 6% your looking for a total distance of 8-9 inches away from your branch. So if your branch is sitting 5 inches down from the screen then the fixture has to be raised 3-4 inches off the top.

It is all about the total distance required from branch to bottom of fixture based on your bulb strength to get the same 3 UVI level at basking.