OK newby needs more clarification on supplements

L

lojack13

New Member
I have a female Senegal about 8 months old in my care. Have had her for about 9 days now. Now I am being told not to give her Calcium with D3 a lot. I should be giving her D3 only about twice a month. And I should be giving her calcium everyday. And ( which the pet store did not tell me, surprise, surprise) she needs a multivitamin. I went out today and bought Flukers Multivitamin with Beta carotene, is this a good choice? Now the package says for daily use. But that can't be correct for Chams right? I was told 2 times a month or maybe once a week. Now the flukers has 10000 IU of D3 in it, so I should not have to give her any other additional D3 outside the multivitamin correct?
Thanks in advance for the help!
 
Regarding supplements, how often to use them depends on how much of what is in them generally. You want to be cautious of those vitamins that are fat soluble (D3 and PrEformed vitamin A for example) since they will build up in the system and cause health issues.

I've kept Senegals a few times over the years and they did well following the following schedule/information...same one I use for veileds and lots of other chameleons...
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
kinyonga said:
Regarding supplements, how often to use them depends on how much of what is in them generally. You want to be cautious of those vitamins that are fat soluble (D3 and PrEformed vitamin A for example) since they will build up in the system and cause health issues.

I've kept Senegals a few times over the years and they did well following the following schedule/information...same one I use for veileds and lots of other chameleons...
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use ).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks! Yeah she is getting the proper 5.0 UVB light 12 hours per day through a mesh screen. I'll grab some Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium like you suggested. Everything I can find in stores around here has D3 added so I may have to order it online unfortunately. Yeah the beta carotene conversion within Chams seems to still be up for debate among a lot of folks from what I read. Certain animals can not convert it to Vit A. The vitamin supplement I have looks to have a preformed Vit A in it so I'll stick with 2 times per month on that. I'm feeding my crickets Calcium + Multi V Flukers gut load but I will be sure to get them some leafy greens as well. Planning on varying her diet as well, super worms, etc. What are you're thoughts about wild-caught insects? It's winter here so it's not an issue yet, but I have heard mixed ideas on the subject. If so, what bugs would you recommend? because I'm sure some are probably toxic. I want to keep her diet interesting and afraid she'll get sick of crickets soon enough.
 
Hi
Just wanted to provide agreement and support to everything Kinyoga has stated.

Yes, that's an appropriate rep-cal without D3 calcium product. The Sticky Tongue Farms Mineral-O is also a good choice of calclium without D3.

More information regarding supplements:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/olimpia/573-chameleon-physiology-supplements.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/174-whats-supplements-brand.html
 
 
sandrachameleon said:
also, here's some info regarding gutloading :
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-nuts-seeds-healthy-part-perfect-gutload.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...just-crickets-roaches-gutload-everything.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/394-dry-gutload-recipe-january-2010.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/425-may-2011-gutload.html

the flukers product not one that is highly rated. Making your own is best, and probably least expensive. But commercial products that get relatively good comments on this forum include Repashy Bug Burger, Cricket Crack and Dino Fuel.
Click to expand...

Awesome I'll look into some of those gut-loading products. Probably try making some myself more than likely. It's not surprising Flukers isn't rated high. It seems like all chain pet store bought stuff is less than adequate, enclosures included.
 
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