OK to put Venus Fly Traps into Cham Cage?

[sttines]

As an aside, VFTs, like other CPs, need rain water or RO water. They also need a dormancy period. Unless your watering system is such, it will eventually die and/or need to be removed for seasonal "rest".

 

[DGray]

VFT toxicity update

Looking through my references, I have more information to offer:

The Carnivorous Plants
Juniper, Barrie E., Robins, R. J., and Joel, D. M.
Academic Press, 1989

This volume has the most specific data on the toxicity of VFT's compounds. The chief among the dangerous components is a form of Plumbagin. This has an LD50 of 40mg/kg. in mice. There is a relatively high level of this in VFT leaves and traps (0.05%), and it is a potent anti-feedant across a wide range of taxa that might consume the plant. It is also bacteriostatic, and has been well-researched as both a cancer drug and anti-fungal, but was abandoned as it is too toxic to the liver.

Also see:

Mechanism of antifeedant activity of plumbagin, a compound concerning the chemical defense in carnivorous plant. Tokunagab, T., Takadab, N., and Uedaa, M. (Corresponding Author) Tohoku University, Department of Chemistry, Aoba-ku, Sendai 980-8578, Japan
Tetrahedron Letters, accepted 22 July 2004.

Plumbagins also reduce fertility of rodents even a very low concentrations and for a long time after the compound is removed from the diet.

Also see:
Antifertility activity of plumbagin.
Premakumari, J. et al. 1977
Indian Journal of Medical Research

On the other hand, in recent years Dionaea is not known to have caused any known cases of poisoning that required treatment. It is not listed in either:
Poisonous plants: a handbook for doctors, pharmacists, toxicologists ...
Dietrich Frohne, Hans Jürgen Pfänder
Georg Thieme Verlag, 1986.
Second Edition: Timber Press 2005
or
International Poisonous Plants Checklist: An Evidence-Based Reference
D. Jesse Wagstaff
CRC Press, 2008

It is not on any of the lists of poisonous plants that have citations and references ( the ones I respect ).

So, sorry, I was wrong. It looks like it would not be that risky to put a VFT in your cage.

As others have pointed out, they do need very bright sun, pure water, and do not tolerate foot-traffic.

 

[Courtney]

i would and have been thinking of puting them in my cham room to eat escapees and the little gnats from the soil. i have vary large window and access to the water. i wouldnt put it in the cage

 

[Carlton]

On the other hand, in recent years Dionaea is not known to have caused any known cases of poisoning that required treatment. It is not listed in either:
Poisonous plants: a handbook for doctors, pharmacists, toxicologists ...
Dietrich Frohne, Hans Jürgen Pfänder
Georg Thieme Verlag, 1986.
Second Edition: Timber Press 2005
or
International Poisonous Plants Checklist: An Evidence-Based Reference
D. Jesse Wagstaff
CRC Press, 2008

It is not on any of the lists of poisonous plants that have citations and references ( the ones I respect ).

So, sorry, I was wrong. It looks like it would not be that risky to put a VFT in your cage.

As others have pointed out, they do need very bright sun, pure water, and do not tolerate foot-traffic.

Very interesting info, thank you! I think we often confuse just what is "toxic" about various plants. For example, whether the plant material is actually ingested or simply present as a cage structure. A plant that is toxic if eaten in any quantity wouldn't be a good choice for chams that occasionally munch on greens. A plant that breaks easily and produces a lot of irritant sap wouldn't be great either (concerns about Ficus fall here). But the same plant may be just fine to use for climbing and roosting if you have a cham species that doesn't tend to chew. Many cham species do not eat plant material.

Frankly I wouldn't put a beautiful flytrap or sundew in a cham setup...just not suited for it and why watch them die miserably?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I can barely keep esy plants alive. Forget that.

 

[PicassothePanther]

lol.. venus fly traps are super easy to keep alive, especially if you have them in a chameleon habitat... and theyre dirt cheap..

the cool ones would be like the size of.. like a taco (of course it would stink if my dude was eaten lol)

 

[nickers1210]

i have kept a VFT before and they are easy enough but remember if you touch one of the hairs in the trap and then another within a few seconds, the trap will close. this uses alot of energy and if there isn't a bug in there to replace that spent energy it will die off. the reason i raise that is; toxcicity aside my cham loves to roam around all over, i have no doubt that he would walk accross the VFT a fair few times in the day and trigger the close without bugs in, this means the plant wouldn't live long. and besides if a plant tried grabbing my leg it would freak me out so i think it would annoy the cham anyway.

 

[Hamn8r]

Are nepenthes toxic to chameleons?

Cheers

Ham

 

[DGray]

Are nepenthes toxic to chameleons?

Cheers

Ham

Probably are. They also contain a variety of Plumbagin.

 

[Chamanam]

I know there is the sticky of suitable plants but does anyone know of a more comprehensive list of plants that are toxic to animals?

Cheers

Chamanam.

 

[DGray]

I know there is the sticky of suitable plants but does anyone know of a more comprehensive list of plants that are toxic to animals?

Cheers

Chamanam.

There are lots of lists that assume those plants that cause poisoning in humans are dangerous to animals; there are lists for plants that might be dangerous to dogs, cats, and rodents. Some use veterinary data, most don't.

I don't think there is any list published that has verified the safety or toxicity of plants to reptiles. It anecdotally based on clinical reports, or based on assumption of universal toxicity. No one is researching the reptile cases as its such a minor part of the pet spectrum.

The crux of the issue is that not all animals react the same way to plant toxins. What might kill a tortoise, an iguana can eat; what might kill an iguana, a prehensile-tailed skink can eat. What the skink can eat might kill the cat.

For the time being I would look at the lists at Melissa Kaplan's site.

May all your animals stay healthy...