Old Veiled ... Smaller Enclosure??

[Dyesub Dave]

Hey All,

I've noticed my old male is really losing his grip a lot lately. He usually seems to catch himself but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he starts to fall. This has been going on for a while now but has been getting worse lately. He eats a few silk / butter worms a day and hasn't seemed to want crickets for ages. He seems to drink fine when I spray though.

He's currently in a 175 gal. flexarium with some live plants, sticks and vines. I was thinking that due to his declining mobility perhaps I should move him to a smaller enclosure. I now have my two females in smaller enclosures and was wondering if they could share something as large as a 175 gal. mesh enclosure.

Please let me know of any thoughts or suggestions that you may have.

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.

 

[dodolah]

Hey All,

I've noticed my old male is really losing his grip a lot lately. He usually seems to catch himself but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he starts to fall. This has been going on for a while now but has been getting worse lately. He eats a few silk / butter worms a day and hasn't seemed to want crickets for ages. He seems to drink fine when I spray though.

He's currently in a 175 gal. flexarium with some live plants, sticks and vines. I was thinking that due to his declining mobility perhaps I should move him to a smaller enclosure. I now have my two females in smaller enclosures and was wondering if they could share something as large as a 175 gal. mesh enclosure.

Please let me know of any thoughts or suggestions that you may have.

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.

try some other feeder beside silkies.
maybe something like katydid, locust, praying mantis (preferably something green and active.
I have experimented a bit on silkies. (Mind you that this is not conclusive and far from being scientific).
Seemed to me, when i fed my cham with too much soft bodied insect (or in your case mainly fed on silkies and butterworms), my chameleon tends to loose his grip strength.

But, fed with crix and other similar insects (with chitin), his grip become stronger.
I'm not saying that silkies are bad for your chameleon, I'm just saying that feeding your chameleon with silkies too often is not beneficial either.

Try other feeder with chitin, and tell us if his grip improves.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Hey .. thanks for the suggestion but I haven't seen those feeders for sale around here at all. He won't touch crickets though. I usually leave several in his enclosure just in case he changes his mind. He's around 6 years old and seems to be hanging on - except for the branches.

He only eats if I put the food on a branch fairly close to him and even then it seems to take him a while to focus on the spot he wants and get his tongue out there. He's not as quick on the draw as he used to be. It also seems that he won't touch grapes or strawberries any more even though the other chams still like them.

I just thought moving him to a smaller enclosure would reduce the risk of accident. I could probably catch some grasshoppers around here but I'm a little nervous about using wild caught feeders for the fear of pesticides.

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.

 

[dodolah]

try local nursery. Usually they sell ooth for praying mantis (idk for Canada though..)

 

[chamlover]

You are really lucky to have had a veiled that long, i can only hope my guy will be around that long. I've read a few threads with people who either have old chams or disabled chams (for whatever reason) and if i remember correctly they just make adjustments in the cage to compensate for it. I don't know if i would take the chance of stressing the old guy out by changing his entire enviroment. Maybe some of them will chime in but i thought they put something soft on the bottom in case they did fall. If it was me that is what i would do.

I also would not put 2 females together. I know you CAN do it if the cage is big enough, you have 2 basking spot, and you have enough foliage or cover so that they can retreat to their own territory without seeing each other if they want to. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. 2 being in the same cage, especially if you aren't home to constantly keep an eye on them, to me, is asking for trouble. They might look like they are getting along quite well but be under alot of stress and unless you are very familiar wtih the subtle signs that they give off you may not pick up on it and it could be very detrimental to their health in the long run. That's my opinion.

Debby

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Some people make a "hammock" or net, sort of like the net a tightrope walker would use. At places such as Lowes or Home Depot, in the garden department, they sell green mesh fabric. Sometimes it is sold off a large roll, and you just get as much as you need. It is very cheap. It is actually used for shading gardens or porches, etc. It is flexible like fabric, allows air flow and waterflow through it, and is green (good for the cham) and lightweight but strong. This can be hung horizontally, in sections, around the enclosure, and can be attached to vertical branches. Hanging it in different sections allows you to arrange it so that your cham can get around it and up and down in his cage if he wants to. We used this for a sick cham and it worked very well. If he falls he will land in the hammock and be able to recover at his leisure.

Also, if there are hard edges in the enclosure, such as on the edge of a planter or a plant stand, then there is something you can use on that, too, to prevent an injury. It is the gray foam "tubing" insulation that is used to insulate pipes in underfloors. It has a split on one side and so is very easy to cut to length and "snap" onto the hard edges of things. This is good for geriatric chams and the very young of larger breeds as well.

Another possible suggestion would be to purchase some of the carnivore care powdered food and dipping your feeders in it before giving them to him. This would boost his nutrition without forcing him to eat more than he would like. Someone on this forum recently wrote of his elderly chameleon needing less food (digesting less food is easier on the body) but more nutrition. We did the dipping-a-feeder-in-carnivore-care method on an ill cham who could barely eat and it appeared to give him more stamina while he recovered. We did NOT, however, have good success with mixing the powder with water and feeding it that way. Chameleons are simply not adept at eating paste or liquids.

It would be great if someone could prepare an article on the care of geriatric chameleons. I think there are probably a few people on this forum who could provide quality information.

 

[ReepsMom]

Caring for Old Veiled... Mine is 8 years old!

Our Veiled is a rescue from a shelter, and we have had him for 7 1/2 years, so he is at least 8 years old. A couple of years ago, we noticed he was looking dehydrated and really skinny. We started hand feeding him water from a small pitcher (one designed to pour olive oil) in addition to spraying him and the cage with warm water several times a day. We realized his sight was fading, as he was missing the crickets, and his tongue did not have the reach anymore, so we installed a small white porcelain bowl in the crook of his favorite branch. We put the crickets in the bowl, and it's like shooting fish in a barrel. He is able to catch most, and the couple that escape, he can have fun chasing. The poor guy's tongue barely reaches an inch or so, so I am sure he would have starved long ago had we not taken these steps. He too falls from his branch from time to time, so we removed everything from the cage he could be injured on if he falls, and put some extra bark on the floor as cushion. We know he will not be with us for much longer, but are hoping he will pass from old age, not injury, starvation, or dehydration. He has been such a joy to us over the years, we feel a sense of duty to make him comfortable in his waning days.

 

[biochemnerd808]

I love hearing stories of 'old' chams... just cuz it is so good to see people keeping their pets throughout their whole pet-life. I wish I knew how old our 'special needs' cham is... so I would know when his behavior is just another issue, or due to old age.

When we first got Leonard (fostering him for a rescue), he constantly fell. I moved things around in his cage so he wouldn't fall too far at a time. Now he still falls every now and then, but usually catches himself and does the really awkward 'I meant to do that' climb.

Good luck!

 

[ReepsMom]

Old cam...

Our old guy is still hanging in there, at least 8 years old, and we have been hand feeding him meal worms and wax worms, because he refuses crickets. Now when we offer food, he climbs on us and curls up under our chin, I am assuming for warmth. I know we are deceiving ourselves thinking this is affection. Are we doing him harm by keeping him away from the uv light, or at this point, should just let him do what he likes?

 

[jannb]

As long as you are not holding him 24/7 and he is still getting so e UV it should be fine.

 

[dom1959]

i just have to say
good job by those with older chams.
gives me hope that i could have that many years.

i really don't think having a "geriatric" cage be a problem,
i mean we use juvi cages don't we?

 

[ReepsMom]

Gut loading non-cricket insects?

We have a geriatric Cham 8 years plus who is now refusing crickets. He is gladly taking wax worms and meal worms hand fed. We do not want him to suffer as he declines. Should we be trying to gut load these alternative foods, and if so any ideas? The pet store had no clue as these are normally treats, not a primary food source.