Only superworms

[eisentrauti]

Just give him a few weeks nothing. Then try the other feeders, I bet you will have successs. If you aren't able to do this it's only a question of time till your guy dies because of adiposias

 

[jojackson]

Perhaps in America, europe, germany etc, but some places simply have 3 insect choice unless they catch their own. (soon to be four) and thats it. Some effort has to be made to find anything else locally and theres no import/export, full stop.
Most of you are fortunate in that a large variety of feeder species are commonly available to you. With this in mind, (supers are the fouth choice) I have to be creative and at some point, even take a calculated risk (wild caterpillars, mantids, grasshoppers).
The only other choice possibility would be locust from the north, at great expense indeed
(setup a major breeding facility for year round avail and go into buisness) you might get a clean colony during plagues, but they are intensly sprayed and poisoned up there.

So I dont want homer getting hooked on anything, because Ill admit, Ill freak out and panic if he goes on a hunger strike. I dont want to rock the boat ya know?
So thanks for that, I know hes pretty unexcited about crickets lately. I wish there was a way to make crickets green! He loves green hoppers! Maybe food dye in the gutload? (joking)

Thanks eisentrouti, Hes ok at present, hes still eating crickets too, I was just worried he might get hooked on the supers. He definately makes hearty eating of them. Ive given 4 moulted ones at a time on two occasions so far (days apart incase he had trouble digesting) no issues to report there, poo normal.
I think I will only offer a few once a week. Im still new to chameleons and I worry they are so delicate, like some marine fish, that they spiral downhill fast if something goes wrong?

 

[sandrachameleon]

jojackson
Im guessing there's a few types of roaches where you live. Crickets you mention. Supers you mention.
And you mentioned grasshoppers - which are usually a good choice. I use them (yes, wild caught and yet there is a small risk related to parasites) ever summer.
so that's four.

Are there any local snails? Termites?

Can you not get silkworms? as domesticaated as they are, I cant imagine anywhere would ban those.

what about Bogong moth - that's probably safe for occassional use (fatty)

 

[eisentrauti]

When sb is really interested to get more feeders he could organize them. 10 different sorts shouldn't even be a problem in the states.

Where there's a will there's a way !

 

[summoner12]

I've been feeding my chams Supers recently. I keep a bunch in a deli cup with Steve's cricket crack and sprinkle some calcium powder into the cup. I feed off a few and add a few worms each day.

is this so wrong?

 

[eisentrauti]

I think the breeding results of species which aren't named calyptratus and pardalis say enough to this topic...
I affirm that long term success with some generations, for example till F3, aren't possible with just one feeder

 

[summoner12]

supers aren't ALL I feed. I have a lot of variety... but lately.... supers have been on the menu.

People need to keep it mixed up.... this is a cheap hobby....

 

[eisentrauti]

If you breed your feeders yourself they are very very cheap. And as I said, the number CB animals are a bad joke in conclusion to the WC chameleons for example the xantholophus

 

[summoner12]

If you breed your feeders yourself they are very very cheap.

feeders not included... this isn't a cheap hobby..... lol

 

[jojackson]

jojackson
Im guessing there's a few types of roaches where you live. Crickets you mention. Supers you mention.
And you mentioned grasshoppers - which are usually a good choice. I use them (yes, wild caught and yet there is a small risk related to parasites) ever summer.
so that's four.

Are there any local snails? Termites?

Can you not get silkworms? as domesticaated as they are, I cant imagine anywhere would ban those.

what about Bogong moth - that's probably safe for occassional use (fatty)

Sandra there is one type of roach only, I Breed these myself. The only other roaches are the german and american varietys that infest your house , nobody will use those, too much risk, they eat crap and move from house to house, you wouldnt know if they had eaten bates.
There are common garden snails ofcourse but the same applies. no termites unless you go far to the bush to get them wild, and I wouldnt have a clue about them. Not sure id want them in my house, local black ants and bullants are nuiscence enough.

Silkworms are a possibility, still involves buying from other states, Ive thought about giving them a go. Bogons are great unfortunately dont come through my parts on their migration, next state over, in season.

Supers are only here since recent months, never before, and I strongly suspect illegally.
I was very lucky to meet somebody and obtain some recently. (what can you do? )

Dehydration is not a concern, water should never be restricted.

No, i wasnt thinking of restricting anything (except excessive numbers of supers), I just thought if he hunger strikes, hell be stressed, if hes stressed he might sulk and refuse to drink too, leading to more issues. (just paranoia I guess, but I only own one cham, the only cham I will ever own, so I dont want him going backwards even temporarily, see.

p.s. Just re-read that, I mean I dont want that anyway, even if I had 100 chams. But especially not with my only Unique cham.

 

[Docility]

i think we all need to put our heads together to figure out a way to cheapen the hobby. easier bugs to breed, how to do it, and what to gut load i imagine with 2 different bugs you could easily sustain a healthy breeding chameleon.

I imagine supers, and roaches would be it, but i cant bring a colony of roaches in my house. crickets are way to hard/ expensive to raise correctly. this also goes for anything that may turn into a flying insect. it just becomes too hard to raise them

 

[jojackson]

Admin could setup a 'Feeders Trader' forum here, or database. All breeders of insects in each state who are members here could be listed, along with the species they breed.
They way you trade each other, member x breeds supers for member y , member y breeds something else for member x and they swap details arrange deleivers to each other and anyone intrested, hopefully cheaper than pets store prices.
So you all support each other. Something like that?

 

[eisentrauti]

feeders not included... this isn't a cheap hobby..... lol

This depends on the species you keep. Montane species or Bradypodions are very very cheap in the maintenance.
At the moment I have for example nearly all my chams outdoors, they like it and I need no electricity

 

[jojackson]

Eisentrouti, you must blessed witha fortunate climate, as I am, but some are not so fortunate, especially in cooler months.
Is your winter very cold? do you have to house them indoors in winter?

 

[eisentrauti]

In the winter months they are indoors, Germany isn't so tropical But from April till September I keep nearly all Chams outdoors

 

[Eric Adrignola]

if they won't eat anythign but one feeder, they just need to be starved until they change their mind. Starving a chameleon is not the same as starving a mammal.

Those crickets will look good after a week or so.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

From time to time, I have restricted the consumption of particular feeders in order to effectively (re)introduce what I would classify as a preferred feeder. I have found that it usually takes just one or two missed feedings to regain interest what the chameleon considers to be a less desired feeder.

Some Vets suggest that a 10% weight loss (especially true when it is a controlled loss) in an adult chameleon is tolerable and does not require veterinary intervention. One must remember; however, that completely removing all food sources for an extended period of time not only reduces fat stores (which may be a good thing) but may lead to "deficiencies of protein and micronutrients" (Dr. Mader).

Keeping a chart of your chameleon's weight can be very helpful in understanding what weight loss/gain occurs and why.

Chameleons may be getting a lot more of their hydration needs met through the percentage of water content of their feeders. Extra effort may be needed to maintain hydration requirements when feeders are completely removed for an extended period of time. Hornworms can have 85% water content while silkworms are at about 75%. A large hornworm weighing 5 grams provides about 4ml of water. Superworms are at about 60%. During extended periods of restricted food intake, expect that additional water consumption will be needed to replace what isn't consumed through feeders.

 

[summoner12]

Admin could setup a 'Feeders Trader' forum here, or database. All breeders of insects in each state who are members here could be listed, along with the species they breed.
They way you trade each other, member x breeds supers for member y , member y breeds something else for member x and they swap details arrange deleivers to each other and anyone intrested, hopefully cheaper than pets store prices.
So you all support each other. Something like that?

this is what the classifieds forum is for

 

[sandrachameleon]

i think we all need to put our heads together to figure out a way to cheapen the hobby. easier bugs to breed, how to do it, and what to gut load i imagine with 2 different bugs you could easily sustain a healthy breeding chameleon.

The expensive part of chameleons, for me, is the initial cost of each cage, the light fixtures and new bulbs every 6 months, new supplements every year, and the incandescent bulbs for heat, and of course electricity. Lets not even count vet bills.

I honestly think feeding my chameleons is the cheaper aspect of the hobby. I am currently feeding 8 chameleons, as well as frogs. To feed all these costs me less than feeding just one cat.

Insects are fairly inexpensive to purchase, but its also very easy to breed many types of insect and reduce that expense even further (not to mention ensure a quality product). I make my own gutload, primarily using leftover stuff I buy or grow to feed me anyhow.

I breed:

• isopods (aka wood sows, pill bugs, rollie polly)
• silkworms (just stared doing this instead of buying eggs, and its far easier than I expected)
• Stick insect
• two types of roach
• superworms (aka kingworms)
• mealworms

All of the above are very easy and inexpensive to keep and breed. If that's all I offered my chameleons, I think they'd do just fine.

But I also catch wild grasshoppers, cabbage loppers, flying termites and moths (in season).

I do raise crickets, but just up to a week old. Keeping /breeding crickets isnt difficult, but they are too noisy for me. So I buy large crickets regularily (three times a month, in small quantity from a local pet store)
I buy butterworms regularily (local store or online)
I buy hornworms occassionally (from online supplier)

Until recently I also bought silkworm eggs, and I still buy silkworm chow (though I also feed dandelion to the silkworms half the time without ill effect, and sometimes mulberry leaveds - reducing amount of chow needed)

I intend to hunt for snails this year or find somewhere to buy some and start breeding those too.

Most North Americans and many europeans could breed most of the insects I do, and probably others, and therefore spend very little to feed their chameleon.

 

[jojackson]

Chameleons may be getting a lot more of their hydration needs met through the percentage of water content of their feeders. Extra effort may be needed to maintain hydration requirements when feeders are completely removed for an extended period of time. Hornworms can have 85% water content while silkworms are at about 75%. A large hornworm weighing 5 grams provides about 4ml of water. Superworms are at about 60%. During extended periods of restricted food intake, expect that additional water consumption will be needed to replace what isn't consumed through feeders.

Again Dave, you hit the nail on the head. Not so much moisture in some feeders than others, hence variety is good. Dehydration was a concern of mine, particularly so if a specific lizard drinks very little anyway. (fortunately not an issue with mine) But something worth taking into account!