Opinion on translucent veileds

Sorry, but I find your points invalid. Nothing personal.
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No no- good points- I enjoy this stuff. Thank you for posting. You brought things into the discussion that I was not aware of (Never had to be, not having albinos myself before) or stupidly hadn't considered this morning (sunburn on europeans).

My source on the albino iguana information was tom crutchfield in florida who breeds albino iguanas. They are raised and bred outdoors in sunlight filled enclosures. He works with a lot of other albinos as well (turtles and alligators). So I figured he knows what he is talking about when he says sunlight does not bother the albino iguanas and has photos and videos of them living out in the sunlight alongside normals.

Also usiguana.com- perhaps the worlds largest breeder of albino iguanas- has photos of them in outdoor pens and just generally outdoors. They are also in Florida sunshine. I don't know if they agree with tom on sunlight or not, but a glance at photos on their site kind of implies it anyway...

And sunburn is also relevant- I also sunburn easily. I'm german/russian ancestry so I can relate to your experience!
 
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fluxlizard said:
No it's not.

Albino iguanas for example bask in the sun and to date have not experienced harm from sunlight. They are raised and bred outdoors in FL just like normal iguanas. They seek out sunlight and bask in it.

Europeans and those of us of that descent are hypomelanistic if you think about it. We do fine even when we move south to FL.



So- you don't like dogs, cats, goats, pigs, horses, sheep, rhode island red chickens, sandfire bearded dragons? All of these with the exception of the sandfires have been selectively bred for desirable effects by humans to produce the breeds of animals you see today.

As for me- I don't like the trans veileds. But that is just me. And I've never had one. I didn't think I'd like trans or leatherback bearded dragons until my first couple of each spontaneously hatched out this past year without my bringing any into my colony. Just kind of random mutations- I suppose I hit whatever number of generations whoever originated those morphs originally hit when they were produced. Now I think they look pretty cool.:) But I wouldn't want a colony full of only those traits.

But one thing I do worry about is if these morphs spread to the point we don't have "normal" appearing animals. With bearded dragons for example- a quick look at kingsnake's classifieds turns up mostly trans and leatherbacks and the like. Because those are the morphs that make breeding profitable enough to make the cost of breeding worthwhile. Personally I don't think of that as such a good thing- once too far down that road it may be tricky to ever come back...
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With other animals, you are not altering the chromataphoric skin cells that are their main source of communication. I understand breeding selectively to produce traits that are both desirable to us and beneficial to the animal, but I am against someone altering and potential harming an animal for the sake of fulfilling some egocentric supremacy complex.
 
Too me it's just breeding a weak trait into an animal that still needs lots of work on just the care of a very healthy specimen. You should want them to be more healthy and strong. I understand it can show up naturally but why do it on purpose. I thought as keepers we were suppose to help sustain them to have for future generations. Should strive to make them better not weaker.:(
 
This is my beautiful female trans veil who I rescued from a pet shop. She had laid eggs and had MBD we took her in and tended to her she came around full circle she lived with us for 2 years after that of course mbd eventually caught up with her as it was in some bad spots like above her brain and on her head. She ultimately had a stroke yet somehow survived it except for walking in a circle all of the time She lived for another 5 months and ultimately died. We gave her another good 2 years after she was rescued.She was the sweetest veil I have ever met sat on my girl friends lap like a lap dog drank and ate out of our hands and so on. So i give a thumbs up to trans veild.
 
This is our Male trans who is very much alive and is ver robust and healthy. Look at his eye that is amazing.
 
healthy low end trands

My two cents. As long as everyone is out breeding the trans and not line breeding them then they can be healthy and interesting. My female trans veiled is my beat eater and just laid her second fertile clutch. She is a low end trans with cute white feet that doesn't look odd or anything like everyone is saying. My opinion is don't knock them till you have one. :)
 
okiroo said:
is eveyone just ignoring this fact? If there are babies in the wild becoming adults and breeding then as far as im concerned its gentic diversity.
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If I remember correctly there were only 2-3 brought in from the wild... And thee rest of the line.has been produced through inbreeding.
 
And thee rest of the line.has been produced through inbreeding.
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I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I read that inbreeding is not necessary for this particular trait to pass on. I might be confusing these with trans bearded dragons. Anyone know?

That said- inbreeding is good and bad. Most domestic animals as we know them are the result of inbreeding. It can bring out strengths as well as weaknesses.
 
okiroo said:
is eveyone just ignoring this fact? If there are babies in the wild becoming adults and breeding then as far as im concerned its gentic diversity.
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That should prove the point that they are not healthy. If they come from the wild, then we should see an abundance of them IN the wild. Yet we do not, because they are easily spotted by predators and they probably are sensitive to the sun in those areas where there is no pigmentation.

And just because they are in the wild does not mean it's a good thing. Human babies are born every minute with chromosome abnormalities and birth defects, but we don't encourage them to reproduce with others with their deficiency to make more. In fact, when human parents have a baby who has a serious genetic issue, and if chromosome testing indicates that their next child would likely have the same disorder, they often STOP having children at that point because they don't want to see another child suffer.
 
That should prove the point that they are not healthy.
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Can you back the idea that they are unhealthy with any factual evidence?

I'm honestly not being critical- I'm just curious because I haven't heard anything about whether they are more prone to health problems.
 
there is no proof that they are sensitive to the sun.
and so far, no proof that they have health problems.

just sayin
 
They look like they've been zombiefied. Regular Veileds are awesome as is, these just dont do it for me, but there must be a growing loyal following for the "zombie veileds" that are buying for the prices seen to stay high.

Now an albino Veiled, well shite! Im on that like a fat man at a buffet!!!
 
fluxlizard said:
Can you back the idea that they are unhealthy with any factual evidence?

I'm honestly not being critical- I'm just curious because I haven't heard anything about whether they are more prone to health problems.
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I probably should have chosen my wording more carefully. I'm not saying they are all unhealthy. I am saying that if it was a good thing to be a translucent chameleon in the wild, there would be lots more of them. But, like the albino alligator, deer, buffalo, etc, there is not an abundance of them because they are often killed by predators or die before becoming adults.

I have not seen studies to prove that they are or are not healthy in captivity.

The first one in this thread appears healthy. Maybe it's just the camera angles, but the second one looks like it has sunken eyes and a deflated casque. I'm not a vet, maybe I'm wrong.
 
camimom said:
there is no proof that they are sensitive to the sun.
and so far, no proof that they have health problems.

just sayin
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Is there scientific evidence that they are NOT sensitive to the sun? Is there scientific evidence to prove that they ARE just as healthy as a standard veiled?

Just askin
 
shaunaroxanne said:
I probably should have chosen my wording more carefully. I'm not saying they are all unhealthy. I am saying that if it was a good thing to be a translucent chameleon in the wild, there would be lots more of them. But, like the albino alligator, deer, buffalo, etc, there is not an abundance of them because they are often killed by predators or die before becoming adults.

I have not seen studies to prove that they are or are not healthy in captivity.

The first one in this thread appears healthy. Maybe it's just the camera angles, but the second one looks like it has sunken eyes and a deflated casque. I'm not a vet, maybe I'm wrong.
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I can assure the male is beyong healthy he eats and drinks like a champ and is just a year old and has alot of growing to do i take very good care of my animals.
 
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