yankfanthom
Established Member
Has anyone noticed there hasn't been a recent response since this guy started this thread? LOL
Opinions on Chameleon Pricing
- Thread starter jrh3
- Start date
yankfanthom
Established Member
I just read a story about a tattoo artist down here in the states that found out his girlfriend was cheating on him. Instead of confronting her he was supposed to do a full back piece on her and instead tattoo'd agiant steaming pile of poo on her back instead. She's suing him now lol!!!
Cainschams
New Member
I have read all the posts and here is how I see it. Oh, not my opinion
People like panthers for various reasons. Whether they are the "brightest" or most "flashy", easier than some others, or that is where the money is. There are lots of different angles. I tend to side more with Chris, Trace and Jr on their opinions but I do see and realize others opinions.
In this world we are in with the chameleon pricing, panthers are WAY over priced. Do I think companies or small scale breeders are asking too much for raising their chams and having a good rep? No, not at all. Do I think veileds are underpriced? Yes. Do I think the other less bred species are underpriced? Hell yes!!!
Here is how I see it at this point. Panthers are priced accordingly and really people arent asking too much for their efforts if they are a known reputable breeder whether large or small scale. Veileds are priced way to freaking low compared to panthers. Its not like they are that much easier to breed or keep and dont give me the BS of they have more in a clutch. That just means that many more mouths to feed which equals out to having another female to take care of to have that many viable eggs. These are not the easiest lizards to propagate in captivity for the most part and we all know how much you have to feed them. As for the lesser bred species, they should be priced twice as much as a panther chameleon. You want to bitch about medical bills, small clutches etc? Keep something that you most of the time have to get WC which lay 10 eggs a time and come in, in shitty condition along with SUPER LONG incubation times or even the hard to care for live bearers.
Panthers are priced at pretty good prices for what it takes to raise chameleons, veileds are priced horribly for how much it takes to raise them and the other species that next to no one wants to keep because they are ugly or not flashy status symbols are priced even more horribly when CB.
I had to sell my last few clutches of tavs for super cheap prices. They are way harder to breed, hatch etc and then raise when there is next to no information about them just to sell them for 200$ An unrelated pair along with any other for 50$ or even less to some. The money meant nothing to me as long as the animals were going to good homes though. Want to talk about having to raise a species longer? Well, if you dont know, tavetana grow slower than freaking moss. You want one the size of a 1.5 month old veiled or a 3 moth old panther then you are going to have to wait 6 moths after hatching. I lost lots of money but that is one of the things that separates a hobby breeder from a large scale or just the super cool panther only breeder. It didnt mean jack to me to loose. It meant more to have them go to potentially good homes.
I have to agree the "Paris Hilton" affect and the whole money making thing drives more people to want to go further with the species, not necissarily start with them because easy, than genuinely liking the species.
JMO. I only have one stupid ugly female goetzei so my opinion really doesnt matter.
BTW, Ambilobe rules and Faly drools.
People like panthers for various reasons. Whether they are the "brightest" or most "flashy", easier than some others, or that is where the money is. There are lots of different angles. I tend to side more with Chris, Trace and Jr on their opinions but I do see and realize others opinions.
In this world we are in with the chameleon pricing, panthers are WAY over priced. Do I think companies or small scale breeders are asking too much for raising their chams and having a good rep? No, not at all. Do I think veileds are underpriced? Yes. Do I think the other less bred species are underpriced? Hell yes!!!
Here is how I see it at this point. Panthers are priced accordingly and really people arent asking too much for their efforts if they are a known reputable breeder whether large or small scale. Veileds are priced way to freaking low compared to panthers. Its not like they are that much easier to breed or keep and dont give me the BS of they have more in a clutch. That just means that many more mouths to feed which equals out to having another female to take care of to have that many viable eggs. These are not the easiest lizards to propagate in captivity for the most part and we all know how much you have to feed them. As for the lesser bred species, they should be priced twice as much as a panther chameleon. You want to bitch about medical bills, small clutches etc? Keep something that you most of the time have to get WC which lay 10 eggs a time and come in, in shitty condition along with SUPER LONG incubation times or even the hard to care for live bearers.
Panthers are priced at pretty good prices for what it takes to raise chameleons, veileds are priced horribly for how much it takes to raise them and the other species that next to no one wants to keep because they are ugly or not flashy status symbols are priced even more horribly when CB.
I had to sell my last few clutches of tavs for super cheap prices. They are way harder to breed, hatch etc and then raise when there is next to no information about them just to sell them for 200$ An unrelated pair along with any other for 50$ or even less to some. The money meant nothing to me as long as the animals were going to good homes though. Want to talk about having to raise a species longer? Well, if you dont know, tavetana grow slower than freaking moss. You want one the size of a 1.5 month old veiled or a 3 moth old panther then you are going to have to wait 6 moths after hatching. I lost lots of money but that is one of the things that separates a hobby breeder from a large scale or just the super cool panther only breeder. It didnt mean jack to me to loose. It meant more to have them go to potentially good homes.
I have to agree the "Paris Hilton" affect and the whole money making thing drives more people to want to go further with the species, not necissarily start with them because easy, than genuinely liking the species.
JMO. I only have one stupid ugly female goetzei so my opinion really doesnt matter.
BTW, Ambilobe rules and Faly drools.
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allencg101
Member
I hear you on this o. even though sites like this make getting panthers easy and in stock. it may be in certain areas but up in the north west its not easy getting them at all. color has alot to do with them. and more and more chams are getting more popular. i've said it in the past k multis are growing fast in popularity and soon imo as popular as jacksons were in the 90's. I already have several big time favorite pet stores here that want my babies when they are available. I also gave them rules for when i sale them to my stores if they want them they can only have one sex if they want the same type they have to go with another breeder with different blood lines. oustalates are very popular up here in the northwest and they are always brown. but when people see them they take them like hot cakes when i got moe i couldn't pay for him all at once and my friend was offerd 400 for him but i already put down a payment to hold my big fellow. veileds also sale like hot cakes so do panthers.
Seeco
Avid Member
Opinions on Chameleon Pricing
If I have the money to buy something I want... then I will buy it.
If I don't think it is worth the price... then I will not buy it.
Not a very difficult decision.
That was a crap response. Just kidding. Lets get this discussion going again. Has anything changed in the market?
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Seeco, nothing is going to change the market until I hit the lottery, and set up the largest chameleon farm in the world.
javsto
New Member
I found a new reptile store on Long Island last night who shall remain nameless (for thier own protection) whose owner openly admitted to me that he usually ends up killing all 4th generation+ offspring from his captive bred panthers because all the color end up coming out less vibrant and more "muddy" the further a bloodline is bred. He does more business with his captive bred veileds asnd jacksons because of thier more natural coloration instead of those wild and bright panthers out there because once they start to fade then no one wants to spend $$$ on a dark panther who doesnt flare up. thats a main reason why he has stopped selling panters as a whole aside from one pair every now and again. If he doenst sell it then he gives it away to a school or some institution tht is willing to adopt it but get its husbandry matierial from him at cost.
Seeco
Avid Member
No way! I bet he just needs to let them get older first. Has he ever tried that?
javsto
New Member
as a some what new owner/keeper in this field, my first cham puchase cost me about $200 for a 2 month old vieled male plus his 18x18x36 cage, 20" hood, 5.0uvb bulb, 8.5" clamp lamp and some plastic vines, sticks and a feeder cup. I just purchased a mt. kenyan 5 month old cham from a forum member here and have learned to purchase my gear from amazon.com and ebay and end up saving a good 40-50% in overall prices as well as knowing someone who works at a local petland store and has a five finger discount as well.
Not including my recent jackson purchase, most stores have gone nutty with thier prices just in chams alone. Like I said above my male vield cost me $40 for a baby yet just yesterday I saw an sub adult male vieled for just under $200. I asked the store owner if that was a type-o and for the real price and he told me that was the real price and to get out of his store if I didnt like it. This store also had him in one giant cage with various other chams just as a graceful, 4 common jackson xanths, 2 male & 2 female, and a male panther all in the same cage and huddled together as a group under the same large ceramic basking lamp and bone dry.
The store where I got my vieled is more reasonable with thier prices with vieleds ranging from $20 to $80 for babies to sub adults and full adults offered at $120 but they always sell them before they reach that age but panthers still asking for over $300 for a breeding pair and never selling (still have the same panther pair from last year according to them).
Not including my recent jackson purchase, most stores have gone nutty with thier prices just in chams alone. Like I said above my male vield cost me $40 for a baby yet just yesterday I saw an sub adult male vieled for just under $200. I asked the store owner if that was a type-o and for the real price and he told me that was the real price and to get out of his store if I didnt like it. This store also had him in one giant cage with various other chams just as a graceful, 4 common jackson xanths, 2 male & 2 female, and a male panther all in the same cage and huddled together as a group under the same large ceramic basking lamp and bone dry.
The store where I got my vieled is more reasonable with thier prices with vieleds ranging from $20 to $80 for babies to sub adults and full adults offered at $120 but they always sell them before they reach that age but panthers still asking for over $300 for a breeding pair and never selling (still have the same panther pair from last year according to them).
javsto
New Member
the way he told me was that once they have hatched and he can tell thier coloration is bad then he just kills them. not sure how long before a panther starts to show color or how long he waits to justify getting rid of them, just going by what he said.
creddjobs
New Member
or he can sale them at a discount if he doubts coloration! SMH
Hoj
Friendly Grasshopper
he is an idiot, IMO
Texas Panther Man
New Member
That sounds like a typical pet store bs story. Not saying thats not what he told you. Im just saying the guys full of bs. He could wholesale those for $50 ea to other stores all day long. Anyone in business to breed and make a profit wouldnt kill healthy offspring because of color.
suzi
Avid Member
I agree 100% that doesn't make any sense!
