YAYYYYYYYYY Just in time for the weekend.
Ordering new cages!
- Thread starter JoXie411
- Start date
Well from someone who got the new cage and then moved it two weeks later... I wish I would have waited but my cage was wider then yours and was a clearside so I was terrified we would accidentally rip it. I think if you are moving within the same town or nearby it is not a huge deal to move. Just keep in mind they have to stay upright if you have plants attached. Also they are 4 foot tall so that makes it hard to move if you don't have a truck or a uhaul.
If the larger cages are going to improve their living environment then I would set up sooner then later since you have a bit more of a wait before you move than I did.
JoXie411
Chameleon Enthusiast
They are dyi cageswhat is the website you ordered this enclosure from ?? i’m looking for one for mine
https://www.diycages.com/collections/vertical-screen-reptile-chameleon-cages
katy32
Established Member
I don't know about husband, but my 12 year old son fit inside the dragonstrand cage when he was cleaning it
JoXie411
Chameleon Enthusiast
No I talked to may husband and we both decided since the move was coming up it was best to wait since we are moving a hour away. I’ve been just giveing Larry more outdoor time so he can stretch his body. Don’t want him getting stunted
micahhh
Member
thank you SO much!!
Hello! How do you like this cage new chameleon “grandma” to a 6month old male.
JoXie411
Chameleon Enthusiast
I like them they have been working out fine. The chameleons have finally settled in to the change of environment
JoXie411
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yea you could build your own for way cheaper.Gratz on the new cages
And jeez you are right. Dragonstrand are nice, but that price has sure gone up. It's actually cheaper to buy Glass...
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well I priced that, granted using an reptibreeze base, and it wasn't that much cheaper to make a breeder series.
However those Atriums are a little ridiculously priced IMO. You can Litteraly buy an Exoterra 36x18x36 which is bigger than the Medium clear side, for 150 less.
I feel like those use to be way way cheaper. Idk what happened to make the price increase so much. I get that clear side material is hard to work with (just did it the other day on a Zilla small screen 18x12x20, failed miserably) but still.
No offense to Bill or anyone that owns one, I just couldn't justify that pricing personally.
Last edited:
JoXie411
Chameleon Enthusiast
It’s the demand that made the price go up if anything. They know ppl will want to buy it
I’ve seen some really cool diy cage builds, When I stop being lazy I will get around to building cages. My 2 year old keeps me busy on top of the two chams and the bugs that I have
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
DIY cages, can get pretty expensive too.
It seems cheap than it starts adding up. I ran into that with mine.
I was like DIY, ya Easy. Cheap. Bought my wood came in around 200 (I did it extremely inefficiently! Next time I know better)
So I was like, ya easy 200, I'm in. Much cheaper than Atrium (the full size was the only one then, and I believe it was like 300-350).
Then I had to paint it, I wanted it to be sure fire, no chance of water getting into my wood ever. Well that's another 85 for Epoxy Paint, Aqurium grade, oh but I want to make sure the bottom doesn't ever leak, well that's getting fiberglassed, there is another 40. Now it's epoxied, I'm still not convinced Flex seal It! There is another 30.
Okay we are a little past the mark. But we are okay, now add the little odds and ends, PVC drains, some fancy trim, screen and vents, we add another 75.
Alright, we are in like 450, it's not too bad. Now we have to have the nice clean glass doors
. Ooops, they won't sell you 22x45inch doors unless it's tempered, oops again tempered only comes in 1/4inch minium. So that's another 175 dollars. Ohh but now we need track, well there is another 30 dollars. And now we are at 550 dollars lol.
Like I said though, this was Completely inefficient, built by 2 people that's only prior wood working was Framing Jobs as Kids. This thing is built like a literal house, and weighs that much too! I would have done sooooo many things diffrent. And will on Version 2. This one will still occupy my living room, for a few years, while I do other projects the right way, but the next model of the huge Viv, is going to be alot different.
Also have to say, all the Tempered glass junk that gets sold for super cheap. IDK how they do that, the glass companys just want to rip off 1 offers I guess.
On the bright side, when I make a V.2 I can sell this to a Tegu owner or something. It's built like a tank, it could handle the force of a large powerful lizard or snake. That a Plywood Viv might not.
Last edited:
By "Ridiculously priced" would that mean you are saying that I am unfairly priced? Or just more expensive? And why would that be ridiculous if I give more features and value? The ExoTerra cage is something completely different. It is a screen cage with a substrate tray. It is not as sturdy, does not come with Dragon Ledges, and does not come with a drainage tray (doesn't even have a drainage tray as an option). It has great dimensions and is a fine cage. And, goodness knows, they get far better shipping rates than I do - especially if you buy off of Amazon. If you are going to get a cage based on price then that is probably the best cage out there as far as dimensions. Though, if you want a cheap cage, I would encourage you to buy from DIY Cages because they are sponsors of this forum. I always encourage supporting companies that support and give back to the community.
The Dragon Strand cages cost more because
1) Better quality - Measure the thickness of the framing between the Dragon Strand and the Exo-Terra/Reptibreeze/DIY. You are getting a stronger frame which is further strengthened by the inclusion of Dragon Ledges for each of the cages. And, yes, EVERY piece on my cages are rust proof. Why? Because I use them outdoors all year long. They have to work much harder than any of the mass imported cages can handle. Every single one of the Chinese imports have at least one part that rusts. If that isn't important to you then fine, but don't discount that those features are important to people who use these in outdoor situations. It is not a fluff feature.
Now this isn't to say these cages are perfect. There are limitations to the materials that we all are using. Door sag drives me nuts - that is a characteristic of being lightweight and having to be assembled. But I can guarantee you that I am the only chameleon cage manufacturer actively investing real money towards solving that and other cage problems that are inherent in the industry.
2) There are way more features. Each of my cages come with Dragon Ledges that allow you to landscape the cages like chameleons need them landscaped. These are no where near free. Each cage has a corresponding Drainage tray. Strange that you would pick a cage that had a drainage tray bundled with it and compare that to a substrate tray. The reason why I do not include substrate trays is because that is not what chameleon keepers need! So why are you so forgiving of cages that require the keeper to change out hinges, mount branches using thumb tacks, create drainage trays, or worse, use a substrate tray? Is saving that money really worth the compromises and the hacks you need to do on the cage to bring it up to speed? If it is, then good for you. Hack away and enjoy. But to say that my cages are overpriced and ignore that they come much more equipped, are more appropriate for chameleon keeping, and last much longer is a completely insufficient analysis.
Dragon Strand cages are fairly priced for what they are, what it takes to produce them, and what it takes to pay for keeping a business alive. If you are the do-it-yourselfer then we can agree you are not my customer. If someone spends the whole week working and just wants to buy something that works, a Dragon Strand cage is the best product out there. If you are the type that would rather spend time with the family over that short weekend rather than hacking a cheap cage then the Dragon Strand product fits the bill. If you want a cage that looks great sitting in your living room then a Dragon Strand cage is the one to get. I know everyone is immensely proud of homemade dragon ledge knock offs and cage modifications, but I have yet to see one produced that looks as good or has the same effect as what I produce. And, please, calculate your time spend on doing it and pay yourself any least minimum wage before you share how cheap it was. Time is not free.
Listen, I understand that people get riled up about expensive stuff. Here is the reality. There is no reason for me, or anyone else, to try to compete with Zoo-Med/Exo-Terra/DIY/Zilla because the last thing we need is another cheap cage. And that is a complete waste of my time even if I wanted to. I am here to move our chameleon keeping husbandry forward. The Breeder and Clearside series finally got solid sides into the mainstream of chameleon keeping. The Dragon Ledges made it easy to landscape the cage where the plants could do the most good. I am going forward into producing chameleon appropriate cages and products that get us closer to seeing the entire cage as an environment instead of a holding cage for a chameleon. If you are sticker shocked now then don't bother coming back to the website because it is going to continue to be expensive and probably get more expensive. I am developing new cages that are even more attuned to advance chameleon keeping. And when you make niche cages things are not cheap. (It is surprising how much I have to pay for just the box to ship these products.) I will continue to push forward because that is my passion. Chameleon caging is a HORRIBLE business decision if any of you are thinking this is easy money. I am doing this out of a passion for where I'd like to see the community go. You know all of these concepts I am learning and sharing via the podcast? My mission is to make the community at large be able to implement them and find that level of success. Notice the relationship to me starting to quietly offer a "Vivarium" series which allows keepers to use the chimney effect for greater control of humidity? It is all connected.
If you insist on comparing what I am doing to the cheap cages then at least be fair in your comparison. Include all the benefit and value included when you get one of my cages. If those extras are not important to you then fine, but do not ignore that what I am sending out is so much more than what the others are sending out.
It is specialty parts going up in price that make the price go up. We try and hold back as much as is possible to keep the prices down, but when we spend our time looking for better parts instead of cheaper parts we become more and more susceptible to vendors raising their prices. I have not raised prices once because of "demand". "Demand" has me investing in operational efficiency with the hope that I can bring prices down.
Bill
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm sorry, that post was confusing I thought I corrected it. (I kind of did, just not clear enough I guess).
In the case of the Medium Clear side Atrium. Only in the case of the Medium Clear Side Atrium.
I feel the price is unjustified. I have seen the atrium, and personally see no difference from your clear sided material and the PVC sheeting that is sold for heavy duty shower curtain liner. In that case, it's cheaper to buy the atrium, and clearside it yourself.
I also feel like the clear side is a poor material choice for side walls and back panel. Branches cannot be affixed to it, nor a cork backing ect, no foam background, and the price is high and it's usability low, To me.
In that regard, a Glass Cage is a better option. Amazon's shipping is horrid, I think I specified that as well. However picking up an Exoterra 36x18x36, for 205 dollars from a show from Josh's frogs, which is bigger and costs almost half of a Clear Side Atrium is a tough sale.
Again, I want to stress however and I think I did somewhere in this post. This only applies to the clear side Atrium. The screen Atrium, is a tad on the high side, but with everything you get and the sizing it is justified.
Breeder series cages, you actually can't make them cheaper, from a Reptibreeze base, without buying a ton of the Foamed PVC, and even then after labor, it's really not worth it.
So again to reiterate, the only cage I think you make that I wouldn't suggest, is the Clear Side Atrium. Due to it's pricing, and Function, I feel it's inadequate compared to Glass, or PVC, and I cannot justify it's price, with similar material readily available for pennies (yours may be better, however seeing yours and using Heavy Duty Shower liners from China, I can't tell a difference)
If there were a PVC breeder style, at 300-350 that would be a different story, and I could personally justify that. It's the clearside material that I have a issue with. Especially when, in the case of the clear side. You could convert a atrium to breeder style, for 40 or so dollars. It's 30 dollars for Cut pieces the size of a Medium Atrium of PVC 1/8inch. And it's 100 for PVC sheet? That's not realistic, and that's not worth it. I'm not saying it doesn't cost you 100 dollars for that sheeting, and that you don't mess up and through quite a bit in the process of installing (I Did) I'm saying that a like material, is avaible cheaply and readily, that makes it seem overpriced.
As to the rest, I don't know where alot of that is coming from, and feel it wasn't address to me. I never said anything about substrate trays, and I said that turning a Reptibreeze into a Breeder series cage, was about the same price and not worth the labor, IE the breeder series, is priced well and I would buy that, before buying a Reptibreeze and trying to convert a Reptibreeze. Again, my comments revolved fully around the Clearside Atrium, no other cage in your stable, the rest I think are priced fine.
I also didn't assume the price raise was due to demand. I figured tarriffs, it out out a few boutique case manufacturers for computers that is another of my Hobby's. The solid alumiunum cases, were pushed to unsellable prices and the company's decided to shut down, rather than attempt to make the massive price hikes needed to keep up. Which was sad, I hope that doesn't happen to anyone in this hobby.
Last edited:
The clear side material was selected so
1) you can pick up the cage. The light weight is a target benefit. Glass is very heavy.
The Medium Atrium cage is superior to an Exo-Terra glass terrarium because
1) Weight as stated above
2) Combination of solid sides and screen side which gives it much more versatility as far as ventilation. 3) external drainage is possible which you do not have with an Ex-Terra cage.
4) Specific hardware to mount to the sides of the cage. Those would be the Dragon Ledges.
Once again, there is a difference between "more expensive" and "unjustified" or "ridiculously" priced. If the clear side is not to your liking and you like glass terrariums then that is fine. But for many applications - say a community that is more in tune with screen cage husbandry rather than glass cage husbandry, it is superior to the Exo_terra glass terrarium.
For the extra price you get
1) one person can lift the cage and move it
2) if it drops it will not break your foot and probably won't break itself. I have done it. It is nice to not have my cage shatter or need help moving it.
3) external drainage - you don't have to worry about a soil layer or soaking up water from the bottom or drilling into a glass floor
4) Hardware included that makes it simple to mount plants and branches off the floor.
Once again. If you like a glass terrarium, more power to you. If none of the above things are important to you, okay. If you want to take a screen cage and attach a shower liner to it, the afternoon is free for garage time. But there is much more value in the Medium Clearside Atrium cage package than just the dimensions. It is a different cage than glass or PVC for a different application. You don't have to recommend it, like it, or use it, but you are not comparing apples to apples.
Similar threads
